I'm Struggling With Table Selection, All Help Welcomed

This is my dilemma:

Do I open 10 tables and wait for top 5 starters?

Problem here is I won't have any idea how anyone else plays at the table.

Plus I'll only see something decent to start with every 75 hands or so. So the blinds would be burning away.

Lastly, where does the law of diminishing returns start? Being spread too thin on attention to detail is a big concern.



Do I open 2 tables or even 1 and try to out play the players?

Problem here is the lack of activity and desire to play a hand with trashy cards.

True, I'll still only see a decent hand every 75 delt, but I could widen my range, make some moves, etc.

Someone please enlighten me.

This isn't a problem with "table selection" as I understand... You're asking, "How many tables should I play?"

My answer to that is, as many as you can play without affecting your win rate.

Just focus on one until you establish a win rate. Then add a table and see how it goes. Keep adding tables until it affects your win rate and then drop a couple.

I can't play more than two...

WTF? Top 5 starters? What is that like JJ+/AK??? How about learning how to play something other than big pairs? You can do that on 1 table or 20 but playing so few hands is NOT the key to winning.

WVHillbilly said:

WTF? Top 5 starters? What is that like JJ+/AK??? How about learning how to play something other than big pairs? You can do that on 1 table or 20 but playing so few hands is NOT the key to winning.

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Relax man, no need for swearing. It's a question.


Refering to top 5 starters, I'm saying the players who are on 10 + tables aren't playing something other than big pairs. Trust me, I watch what they showdown.

To the other poster, you're right. I should change the title but I don't have an option too for some reason.

D P D said:

This is my dilemma:

Do I open 10 tables and wait for top 5 starters?

Problem here is I won't have any idea how anyone else plays at the table.

Plus I'll only see something decent to start with every 75 hands or so. So the blinds would be burning away.

Lastly, where does the law of diminishing returns start? Being spread too thin on attention to detail is a big concern.



Do I open 2 tables or even 1 and try to out play the players?

Problem here is the lack of activity and desire to play a hand with trashy cards.

True, I'll still only see a decent hand every 75 delt, but I could widen my range, make some moves, etc.

Someone please enlighten me.

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Are you using a Heads Up Display? The best advice to me was to invest in one as soon as I could afford it. Back in the day there was a decent free one, Realtime or something, not sure if its still around. There was another free one called free poker database or something, seemed unfinished when I used it and multitabling was almost impossible, but it had the essential stats (VPIP, PFR and several others.) Using a HUD will let you track player actions and give you statistics in real-time. Learning what those stats actually mean and how to introduce them into your game takes some amount of studying, but is totally worth it.

10 tables and 1 table is a wide range... With no HUD 2-4 is manageable with good note taking. 4+ I never tried without a HUD, but seems pretty difficult, although I am sure there are others that can.

I would suggest you invest in a HUD (bankroll permitting) if you want to play online, or at the very least find a free one, learn the stats, then take up one of the trials of the big two (HoldEm Manager, and Poker Tracker 3)

D P D said:

Relax man, no need for swearing. It's a question.


Refering to top 5 starters, I'm saying the players who are on 10 + tables aren't playing something other than big pairs. Trust me, I watch what they showdown.

To the other poster, you're right. I should change the title but I don't have an option too for some reason.

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I am sure there are members here that play 10+ tables and arent only playing JJ+ and AK preflop. I play 6-9 tables and play a significantly wider range. That is why a HUD is so useful.

Only playing big pairs is easily exploitable by any player using a HUD. Im not sure how many are using them at the stakes you are playing. But I am sure they are there at each level.

If you are using some tracking software and you were already aware of this, apologies. Maybe someone who didnt will browse this and find it useful.

Thanks for the reply.

I've used sharkscope's HUD and PokerEdge3 off and on for a long while. Sharkscope doesn't track cash games, but was nice for tourny's. Pokeredge3 is nice for cash games but no tourny's. Plus pokeredge3 had SOOOOOO many software issues. Every time a poker room updated software , they'd have a major meltdown. Plus they're against the rules, but so is online gambling to Americans (yet there are poker rooms who still take American's rake back).

I've just started to use Hold'Em Manager, I'm in the trial stage. I really like it. Plus I had about 40,000 hands logged already. So it's a good start.

I'll just stick to a few tables with a HUD.

My question comes from seeing a few players (not anyone in particular) that never play a hand so I go see how many tables they're on. They're on 12-16 tables busting off 4-10X raises every hour or so. I figured there must be something to it, because I track several players who do it.

Thanks again for the reply.

Stop using PokerEdge. Sites WILL take your roll if they catch you using it.

I didnt thing it is illegal to play poker online, its the banks and payment processing that runs into legal trouble, at least thats what I thought. Alls I know is its a pain in the ass to move money within the US right now, which I hope they can clear up soon... canada isnt too far away i 'spose=D

HEM is a good program. Make the most out of the trial while you have it.

I understand that mass multitabling and playing a very nitty style can work at the micros. Just putting in mass volume and net peddling is a viable strategy from what I read. The downfall is that it is any easy style to exploit to anyone paying attention to your HUD stats.

If I had a player that was running say 6/8 (VPIP/PFR) over like 200 hands I will mark him as a nit and try to play at tables with him on my left. I can steal his blinds and button repeatedly until he adjusts. It is also easy to put him on a range preflop and play accordingly. Also, it lets you isolate fish while in position more often when you know he is folding most of his hands. Stats like the Preflop3bet% and FoldtoPreFlop3bet% come in handy with players that you have history with, although these stats take longer to become accurate.

If I were you I would stick to a few tables with the HUD and try to play correctly vs each villain according to the stats you get. Keep in mind sample size is everything with statistics, so dont make assumptions based on stats alone until you have a decent sample. Also remember that the later the street the longer the stat takes to become accurate. So, VPIP and PFR dont take nearly as long as say, Check-Raise River %, to become accurate.

Once you feel comfortable with those tables add and you are winning over a decent sample, add another table or two. Dont hesitate to drop tables either...

Anyways, cheers!!

Welcome 2011

Thanks, it's not worth any trouble or their cost anyway.

WVHillbilly said:

Stop using PokerEdge. Sites WILL take your roll if they catch you using it.

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Thanks for the tip. I have also read that using sharkscope while playing is against some site's Terms of Service or something, and can result in the same thing. Do you know anything about this? Did I misunderstand/misread something?

Wardo420 said:

Thanks for the tip. I have also read that using sharkscope while playing is against some site's Terms of Service or something, and can result in the same thing. Do you know anything about this? Did I misunderstand/misread something?

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I think if they catch you looking at sites while playing they will generally just give you a warning. It is however against their T&Cs and they can close your account and take your money if they want to. So I would advise against it.

D P D said:

Relax man, no need for swearing. It's a question.


Refering to top 5 starters, I'm saying the players who are on 10 + tables aren't playing something other than big pairs. Trust me, I watch what they showdown.

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Thats not true.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but what do you guys look for when table selecting, since you can't see player stats until after you play hands?

Krayz said:

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but what do you guys look for when table selecting, since you can't see player stats until after you play hands?

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Tight blinds (so we can steal)

Tight UTG-MP (when we have position on the fish the UTG players are opening the tightest portion of their range, so we wont often be in pots with them and if we are we can play near perfect against them)

Loose passive CO and HJ (fish) (we have position on fish, we get to see what everyone else does before we enter the pot).

Look for loose tables but then move if the table isnt structured as above.

Stu_Ungar said:

Tight blinds (so we can steal)

Tight UTG-MP (when we have position on the fish the UTG players are opening the tightest portion of their range, so we wont often be in pots with them and if we are we can play near perfect against them)

Loose passive CO and HJ (fish) (we have position on fish, we get to see what everyone else does before we enter the pot).

Look for loose tables but then move if the table isnt structured as above.

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Thanks, that's really informative.

Krayz said:

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but what do you guys look for when table selecting, since you can't see player stats until after you play hands?

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I usually sort tables by highest players per pot percentage. Then I try to get at a table with the highest average pot. I also try to avoid tables with more than one shortstacker. If the table isnt close to what Stu has said I will not think twice about moving once the blinds get back around.

To help me table select I have somewhat of a coloring system. On FTP, in the notes section, you can choose different colors to be displayed on the person. I change the color according to how loose or tight the player plays. Red for tighter players, blue for looser players, then I adjust the brightness of each color as I gain more hands on each player...

So, a player playing 7/6 over a decent sample is going to be the darkest red. On the other hand, a donk playing 69/30 over a decent sample would be the darkest blue. This may not be the best system but it seems to work for me. It helps for easier table selection. Like if I see a dark blue player and an open seat to his left I will likely sit there (unless the table is filled with shrtstackers) so I will be in position vs this player. Sometimes I will find a table with high players per pot and average pot and there will be a few red colored players with an open seat on their right, I will likely sit there knowing I have a few tight players in the blinds which I can steal. Also, with tighter players to my right I can steal the button more when in the CO and HJ and play more hands in position.