I'm having trouble beating micro-stakes cash games

I

ilostmysoul

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Total posts
228
Chips
0
(I tried to search for "micros" but couldn't really find any topic that asked for NL2 Cash Game strategy. The closest I got were people asking if NL2 was beatable, without including their current strategy - like the one a few places below this one. If I missed a post, I'm sorry).

I always had this problem. I know/have studied the basic strategy (I would even go as far as to say I know intermediate strategy). I know how to calculate odds, implied odds, I have what I consider to be a good pre-Flop strategy, etc. I'm generally a profitable player, but only as far as S&Gs and Tournaments go.

90% of the money I've profited from poker so far come from freerolls (CCs freerolls were awesome in building my bankroll), satellites and subsequent earnings in big tournaments, and small S&Gs (1-2€ at a time).

But I get destroyed when playing NL2, and I have no idea why.

I was wondering if you could provide some general tips, literature, or profitable strategy in terms of NL2 cash games. My general strategy (obviously it varies with position, opponents, etc.) for them has been the following:

Pre-Flop raise 3xBB + 1BB/limper with TT+, AQs+; raise 3xBB (if first to enter) with 87s+, 55+, A8s+, JTs+. Calling after limpers with 22+, A2s+, J9s+, QTs+, KTs+, 56s+.

Post-Flop (again, only generally): betting/calling all streets with TPGK; bet/raising with 2-pair or better (only top 2 pair - or better - if met with big action); using odds to play draws; folding River with less than 2 top pair in case of a big bet / folding if River completes a draw and he was passive on other streets.

I've used some of my previous earnings to invest in a cheap HUD (Jivaro) and buy Online 6-Max NL from Harrington, that includes sections on micro and small stakes. I'll be seeing if they help when I start using them.

But is my strategy broken in some fundamental way? What I find happens is that I will raise pre, someone will call with, say T6s (I've had players tell me, after I asked why they called with some trash hand, "lol a 25 cents raise xD") and then Flop will come pretty dry, I keep betting 2/3 with overpair or TPGK until the end, then get beat by their 2 pair.
Other times I fold my small 2 pair because 2 others players keep raising each other, and then I find out one of them has a medium pair and the other has an overpair. And other times they have nothing but draws.

I have no idea why there's a gap between my tournament performance and my NL2 performance, but I have no doubt I'm a long-term loser at NL2 right now. I accept any tips and comments! Thanks!


P.S. 2: Since portugal has only recently got out of its online poker blackout, we are only allowed to play 6-max Cash Games. Only Tournaments and S&Gs are FR. So I would appreciate if the strategy could be applied to 6-max :)
 
Last edited:
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
most people get destroyed dont take it personally... rake is one of the biggest killers
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
"Pre-Flop raise 3xBB + 1BB/limper with TT+, AQs+; raise 3xBB (if first to enter) with 87s+, 55+, A8s+, JTs+. Calling after limpers with 22+, A2s+, J9s+, QTs+, KTs+, 56s+."

If I am interpreting this right you may be raising too tight and calling too loose. Also, most of the edge in tournaments come from preflop play while in cash games most of the edge comes from post flop play due to deeper stacks and multi street play.
 
cheapseats76

cheapseats76

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Total posts
133
Chips
0
In your preflop range are you raising every time when first to enter the pot. If so then I would scale this back a bit as you are playing far to many connecting cards unless your strategy is loose aggressive. If that's the case then you need to be much better than your opponents after the flop as you will have to make more difficult decisions than a tight player would. My advice for the low stakes games are to play even tighter and try abc poker. Don't bet unless you have a hand and when you do get a hand push it hard. I read in Harrington on cash that when you get the nuts you should just jam and not try to lure your opponent obviously this tactic has a lot to do with your opponents tendencies. The micro stakes are tough as many player either don't care or don't know what there doing so your advanced maneuvering won't work. Good luck on the felts!
 
I

ilostmysoul

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Total posts
228
Chips
0
"Pre-Flop raise 3xBB + 1BB/limper with TT+, AQs+; raise 3xBB (if first to enter) with 87s+, 55+, A8s+, JTs+. Calling after limpers with 22+, A2s+, J9s+, QTs+, KTs+, 56s+."

If I am interpreting this right you may be raising too tight and calling too loose. Also, most of the edge in tournaments come from preflop play while in cash games most of the edge comes from post flop play due to deeper stacks and multi street play.

Interesting, do you have any tips on some hands I could add?

You are most likely interpreting it right, I play pretty tight, indeed most likely too tight. I could also include KTo+ but that's pretty much it.

I also forgot to include my calling range in case of a standard/3BB raise behind me. If there are no limpers, it's 99-JJ, JQs+, AT and AJ (I'll 3-bet with AQ+ and QQ+). If there are a bunch of limpers, I stretch this to include more suited connectors. More than one raise I only play QQ+, AK.

Thanks for answering!

In your preflop range are you raising every time when first to enter the pot. If so then I would scale this back a bit as you are playing far to many connecting cards unless your strategy is loose aggressive. If that's the case then you need to be much better than your opponents after the flop as you will have to make more difficult decisions than a tight player would. My advice for the low stakes games are to play even tighter and try abc poker. Don't bet unless you have a hand and when you do get a hand push it hard. I read in Harrington on cash that when you get the nuts you should just jam and not try to lure your opponent obviously this tactic has a lot to do with your opponents tendencies. The micro stakes are tough as many player either don't care or don't know what there doing so your advanced maneuvering won't work. Good luck on the felts!

Very informative answer, thanks for the input!
 
Last edited:
Zeimar Silva

Zeimar Silva

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Total posts
65
Chips
0
Always remember.

Cash game is always played with at least 100 BB and in the tournament and sng NO. This makes a lot of difference.

If you lose a hand with all in, you repoe and go on ... that's how cash game players think, which is completely different from sng players and tournaments.

In the tournament, you are accustomed to playing with less, well less than 100 BB.

Why did you say that? Because it really makes a difference in how to play cash and sng or tournament. An AA, 22, 56th has different values for cash game and for sng / tournaments.

Well, I think so.

Another thing, for cash game, focus on learning to play post-flop, is fundamental.

good luck.
 
Last edited:
I

ilostmysoul

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Total posts
228
Chips
0
Always remember.

Cash game is always played with at least 100 BB and in the tournament and sng NO. This makes a lot of difference.

If you lose a hand with all in, you repoe and go on ... that's how cash game players think, which is completely different from sng players and tournaments.

In the tournament, you are accustomed to playing with less, well less than 100 BB.

Why did you say that? Because it really makes a difference in how to play cash and sng or tournament. An AA, 22, 56th has different values for cash game and for sng / tournaments.

Well, I think so.

Another thing, for cash game, focus on learning to play post-flop, is fundamental.

good luck.

I hadn't considered that, thank you for the insight! :)
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
Interesting, do you have any tips on some hands I could add?

www.acepokersolutions.com/files/6-max starting hand charts v3.pdf

I believe this is from a members site, John A. It is a great start to get an idea of opening ranges by position and just play slightly tighter than this at the micros and you should be fine. I will also recommend the book Crushing the Micro Stakes by Blackrain. The book won't make you a crusher in todays game but will lay the foundation.
 
I

ilostmysoul

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Total posts
228
Chips
0
www.acepokersolutions.com/files/6-max starting hand charts v3.pdf

I believe this is from a members site, John A. It is a great start to get an idea of opening ranges by position and just play slightly tighter than this at the micros and you should be fine. I will also recommend the book Crushing the Micro Stakes by Blackrain. The book won't make you a crusher in todays game but will lay the foundation.

Thanks so much for answering and all the information!

Why is it that people say the game has changed a lot, though? Has it really? I understand that the poker boom was a long time ago, and nowadays there aren't so many poor players, but I still think the vast majority of them is poor.

As long as TV shows keep showing professionals playing, I don't think the boom will end. I have friends who play poker, have lost all their deposits so far, but are still convinced they are good players (playing any JX) and that poker could be a very good and easy way to make a living.

Even the people I personally know playing 20-50NL don't know how to calculate pot odds (although they play pretty tight). They play because they can afford to deposit 500€ whenever they lose their money, and they will have a positive month from time to time.

I always had trouble knowing what has changed and which parts of the theory I should discard.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Watch these for micro game flow and basic strategy/mentality:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdOtYent_dBMzZU7NS0rsRg

Works well, most likely with best EV, but is boring =) He is NL100 grinder, but keeps puppies happy by once a moth playing in micros, so he has some experience in micro too, to be safe side respect the newer videos more.
 
I

ilostmysoul

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Total posts
228
Chips
0
Watch these for micro game flow and basic strategy/mentality:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdOtYent_dBMzZU7NS0rsRg

Works well, most likely with best EV, but is boring =) He is NL100 grinder, but keeps puppies happy by once a moth playing in micros, so he has some experience in micro too, to be safe side respect the newer videos more.

I feel offended :p

Thanks for the tip, I was unaware of that channel. I usually watch this guy https://www.youtube.com/user/thepokerbank/videos but he covers a big variety of stakes and live/online so it's not clear which strategies are applicable to NL2 or not.

I still don't know exactly what makes the difference between an outdated strategy and a strategy applicable for "today's games", I guess it eventually comes down to experience as you try theory out and see what works and what doesn't work.

Thanks for answering :D
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Total posts
4,716
Awards
14
Chips
50
maybe try tightening up and really trying to focus on getting value out of the hands

also try taking more/better notes

maybe review your hands after you play- and post question hands in a forum
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
I still don't know exactly what makes the difference between an outdated strategy and a strategy applicable for "today's games", I guess it eventually comes down to experience as you try theory out and see what works and what doesn't work.
No idea what is the correct answer to this, but I would guess there is no difference in game play. How can there be, because the basics of games are mostly learned without tutors/tutorials so history or present of strategy has no meaning in it. The learning comes later.

That said, there are always some player eager to learn, and learning is made very easy nowadays, well at least they claim so, I don’t feel it =) So if generally 10% of player win, and those are the ones advancing to next level. The likelihood those 10% include the players already studying the game is very large. This means that already at NL5 you see players with hours after hours study of the game, and obviously to play against them you need not to lose too much vs them (fish will balance). No worries though, at NL5 the nittiest of nits (10/8) will call you 3steerts with second/third pocket pairs quite often (this always amazes me). So if the nit is a big fish caller, what chances we rest have :O
 
T

Tricky123bet

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Total posts
225
Chips
0
I agree with IPlay. I read Crushing the Microstakes, and the most important parts seem to be applicable yet to this day, ex. find the fish and exploit them by value betting and getting it in with your strong hands, and play cautiously or give it up when you don't have a strong hand.
If you have any questions about it just reach out to the author with an email.

Secondly, practice. I am new to poker as well, having played around 30k hands of 2nl full ring and some freerolls on pokerstars. I'm still aiming for 100k hands at 2nl in the next few months before I decide if I'm ready to move up or not.

But find your own path. If you feel like you are ready to move up in just 2-3 weeks of time, do it, but be ready to drop back down again if things don't go well.
 
Vini_lepoker

Vini_lepoker

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Total posts
118
Chips
0
You don't want to be calling that wide, I think that maybe you're putting yourself in tricky spots where you don't have the initiative and/or out of position post flop. You gotta play ABC poker in the beginning I would recommend BlackRain79's blog (www.blackrain79.com) lots of good stuff about micro stakes strategy.
 
T

Tricky123bet

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Total posts
225
Chips
0
You don't want to be calling that wide, I think that maybe you're putting yourself in tricky spots where you don't have the initiative and/or out of position post flop. You gotta play ABC poker in the beginning I would recommend BlackRain79's blog (www.blackrain79.com) lots of good stuff about micro stakes strategy.

Yeah I forgot to mention Blackrains site, he has some free stuff there. Also he has a Youtube channel with a few videos if you prefer that kind of studying material.
 
Zeimar Silva

Zeimar Silva

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Total posts
65
Chips
0
You don't want to be calling that wide, I think that maybe you're putting yourself in tricky spots where you don't have the initiative and/or out of position post flop. You gotta play ABC poker in the beginning I would recommend BlackRain79's blog (www.blackrain79.com) lots of good stuff about micro stakes strategy.


I did not know that http://www.blackrain79.com/
But the little I read I found very interesting, but apparently it only speaks of cash game.
 
I

ilostmysoul

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Total posts
228
Chips
0
No idea what is the correct answer to this, but I would guess there is no difference in game play. How can there be, because the basics of games are mostly learned without tutors/tutorials so history or present of strategy has no meaning in it. The learning comes later.

That said, there are always some player eager to learn, and learning is made very easy nowadays, well at least they claim so, I don’t feel it =) So if generally 10% of player win, and those are the ones advancing to next level. The likelihood those 10% include the players already studying the game is very large. This means that already at NL5 you see players with hours after hours study of the game, and obviously to play against them you need not to lose too much vs them (fish will balance). No worries though, at NL5 the nittiest of nits (10/8) will call you 3steerts with second/third pocket pairs quite often (this always amazes me). So if the nit is a big fish caller, what chances we rest have :O

Very good inisght, thanks!

As for learning, in the book "Signal and the Noise" (for anyone interested in the stock market, it's a MUST), Nate Silver talks about poker in one chapter. He says the learning curve in poker is very steep at the beginning, and then it evens out.

What he means by that is that if you know how to calculate EV and pot odds, you're already above 50% of the players. If you know how to calculate implied odds and some general theory regarding tournament theory, reading opponents, ranges, etc., you're already above 80% of the rest of the players.

The most advanced topics, things that come mostly from experience, are reserved for the top 20% of all the players. And here you progress much slowly. So if you master check/raising, you only get, say, to the top 15%, instead of jumping 20-40% at once. The more you get to the top, the slower your progress.

That's why I always get confused when someone says theory is outdated, because I agree with Nate.

As for blackrain, would you guys think the blog and/or the book is enough, or I should I get the whole package? I can afford the book, but I'm not comfortable paying for the book + videos until I can pay them with my poker earnings.

Thanks everyone for answering!!! :D
 
Doubledunk

Doubledunk

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Total posts
726
Awards
1
Chips
91
Read Polished poker.. its good for micro stakes..

Just like what others said, it's the rake that makes it harder to earn in micro
 
D

doom

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Total posts
570
Awards
1
RS
Chips
81
and where are you playing nl2 ?if you play on ps there are no rewards for that limit and not lot of fish and on 888 rake on nl2 is huge
 
H

hotel64

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 5, 2014
Total posts
8
Chips
0
from 88 up wards we will mk 85 percent off our money
 
kwokk3

kwokk3

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
May 8, 2018
Total posts
7
Chips
0
2018

@ilostmysoul.How are you doing now after a year? Are you a winning player now?
 
H

HeftyR

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Total posts
2
Chips
0
Heya, I realise this post is 5 years old, so I hope by now you're crushing the microstakes, and have levelled up, but if not, you might find it helpful to consider - on the point that several people have made of calling too wide - that your calling range should be as good or better as the range of the preflop aggressor's based on their position at the table.


As for resources, PokerStars School has a very good series of YT videos about playing 6-max cash which I found really helped me adjust to playing in this format after previously only playing tournaments.

It's also worth saying that the bad beats come thick and fast at the micros. People are playing based on hunches, or just wanting to see every hand to showdown. Sometimes they luck out and hit top two pair, or they hit their flush after you gave them appalling odds to call with their draw, or they suck out on the river. It happens A LOT. Because plenty of them haven't the faintest idea about pot odds, or whether a call is + or -EV. They just do what they feel like. So it's quite often very difficult to know where you are against them. But this is what makes playing against them very profitable too. I've had players call down my 1/2, 2/3 and even pot sized bets on dry board where I was the preflop aggressor and I hit top pair on the flop and found them to have bottom pair. Some of the players will do this kind of thing hand after hand after hand. They just can't believe you could possibly have a hand.

There are a few things to always avoid at the micros:

Limping and calling where you could be betting and raising. Obviously.

Allowing multiway pots with premium holdings because you didn't use a large enough bet size to isolate. Some tables at the micros require a larger than 3BB bet to whittle down the number of players.

Being terrified of bluffing because 'everyone's a calling station'. They're not all calling stations. Some of them are, and some of them will play fit-or-fold. A well-thought out bluff can still work at the micros, and I steal a lot of pots that way. Just remember to shut down as soon as you get resistance, and don't do it against sticky players.

Looking at your hand and whether you hit the flop, rather than looking at the board texture and thinking about what your preflop aggression looks like. I will *always* c-bet a dry board if I raised prelop unless I've missed and am playing against a major calling station. I will also almost always bet on paired boards because the fact there are two of those cards on the board means it is less likely my opponent holds one of them, and so I can represent it and usually steal the pot even from reasonably sticky opponents. If they call, unless I have a read

Betting too big postflop. A 1/2 pot c-bet needs to work 33% of the time to be profitable (and your opponent will miss the flop about 65% of the time), but I've found taking a couple of cents off doesn't change the fold frequency of my opponents. More often than not, they are either calling or folding irrespective of the bet size unless you're making a really serious overbet. So keep c-bets somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 pot so as not to burn money when c-betting as a standard play, and ramp it up when you're going for value on the turn and river. BlackRain advocates totally standardising your bet sizing but I find this only useful to a degree.

Using the 'quick seat' option. Always, always go about this the long way and look at the stats for tables. Choose tables that have a high VPIP% and low stack sizes. These are your loose passive players. Play very conservatively until you've gotten a feel or the table and seen some showdowns (which are plentiful at loose passive tables). Make notes on the players and get a sense of what they think is a good hand. The more information you have on your players the better you can exploit them.

Not trapping ever. It's true that you want to play for value, value, value at the micros, and so most writers suggest never slow playing a hand. I think there are occasional exceptions. For instance just today I had AK. The flop comes AAK. So I've flopped the nuts. I am only getting called by ace hands and king hands if I bet here. My opponent is very unlikely to have an ace because there's already one in my hand and two on the board. They are 25% more likely to have a king than an ace, but even so with two of them already accounted for I don't assume it will be the case all that often, and if they do have a hand like king rag they *might* fold it because of the fear of the aces. Hard to say. Plenty of them won't, but you've got players who see scare cards and play pessimistically, and you've got players who go 'I've got a pair of kings!!' and are oblivious to the threat of the aces. So I check there. If they have an ace or a king they can bet and I'll call, and if they don't they might hit the next card and want to bet there. Today the turn came a low card and I bet because they are unlikely to see that as much of a threat. Because I showed weakness on the flop, when the river came another king, they bet, I reraised and they reraised all in. They didn't even have a king, they were just looking to scare me off. So there are rare situations where slow playing a hand is the only way to get value if betting the flop just makes it extremely obvious you've got a monster hand. Most of the time you want to bet out at everything, but very occasionally you can slow play if there's no other way to get value.

Those would be my tips, but of course every microstakes player has their own. If you're still playing NL2 then hopefully you'll have worked out what works for you already, but if not, give those a whirl.
 
G

Gelidmind

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Total posts
132
Chips
0
Micro stakes are a different beast and I don't think the same rules apply as they do in the bigger stakes games. I don't make too many raises in micro stakes because players enjoy shoving so much. I really use my position and don't make pots big for no reason. I do my best to only call all ins when it makes sense and fold some really big hands because most micro stakes game players play with the cards face up. While this is just my opinion it has helped me to cash in tournaments. I just won a Freeroll tournament tonight using the same strategy.
 
Real Money Poker - Real Money Casinos Top 10 Games
Top