This is a discussion on Ideal "Average All In Equity" within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; I have been thinking about this lately.
I am pretty aggro with nut flush draws/OESD draws/combo (gutshot + FD) draws on the flop and am
I am pretty aggro with nut flush draws/OESD draws/combo (gutshot + FD) draws on the flop and am willing to stack off with it either outright or after opponent 3bets my raise/chkraise (since I know I am behind but there is a bunch of dead money in the middle so...). This results in shitty AAIE but I do win some pots on the flop with aggression etc. vs people who are ahead or flipping against my hand.
So, does anyone have any idea about "optimal" range for this stat? Presumably stacking off too light is horrible since you lose more than you get via fold equity while stacking off too tight is also horrible since then a player folds way too much himself
I am right now in "too aggro" land and need to tone it down for sure
5th December 2013, 12:17 PM
Poker at: Zynga
"Aggro" all the way. The sith I think refer to it as the dark side of the force. It's the sexy way to pokerz. Just keep in mind that getting your whole stack in as a 2 to 1 dog and little to zero fold equity is pretty overrated to say the least. Properly evaluating your fold equity is critical. If you're up against the kind of micro player who you know isn't letting go of top pair anyway and/or is still going to pay you off after the 3rd club peels, then jamming on them after they raise you should be um reconsidered.
The stat itself is a HEM2 thing I think. I use PT so yeah. Where's this AAIE figure at for you?
5th December 2013, 2:14 PM
Online Poker at: PS, FTP
Here is by stakes:
2NL = 57% (56% on the flop)
5NL = 53% (51% on the flop)
10NL = 57% (54% on the flop)
25NL = 50% (39% on the flop) - OUCH!
25NL is the first level where I am actually behind in All In situations (AI EV is negative, -2 bb/100 while it was +2 bb/100 in 10NL), most of the problem is on the flop. I will dissect this over next few days to see what is going on but it seems being aggro on the flop with draws isn't working that well anymore.
I see some winning players have this at 67% overall which I think is either positive variance (1-2k hands samples) or they are stupidly tight.
I am pretty sure PT has a similar stat?
13th December 2013, 6:43 AM
Poker at: Bovada
re: Poker & Ideal "Average All In Equity"
aggression with drawing hands is a fundamental part of winning at poker. It sounds to me like you have the right idea. You do not have to become less agro. Adjust your aggression based on your table image, your opponents betting trends and statistics, your pot odds, your implied pot odds, your reverse implied pot odds. Also do not always check raise, you'll find that you don't take down as many pots doing this because you get more calls. Play drawing hands mostly in position so you can be the one who C-bets, and if you are first to act occasionally lead out, showing strength to your opponent. Adding this type of variety to your flop semi-bluffing will earn you enough fold equity to be a +Ev player in the long run.
Also from a theory prospective winning players don't "get it in and flip!" with draws, even big draws. Your objective is to not get to showdown. You will make your money not getting to showdown. Most good players are probably winning 50% of the pots they get to showdown with. your money should be coming from weak players who call bets out of position to see flops. They will call, miss, and regardless of your hand your bet should be sufficient to force a fold. This is an element of the game where aggression is an important function.
Just remember, rather than getting it in on the flop by check raising (which could induce a 4bet pricing you in to an all in) Just bet the flop, and bet 70% on the turn. And if you have it in you, bet again on the river. Triple barreling with draws is so much more +ev then just flipping with guys that have made hands. When you triple barrel with draws your fold equity increases immensely and you obviously can still improve to the best hand.
As a rule of thumb, if your moves are getting better to fold, or getting worse to call, then your doing things correctly.
14th December 2013, 11:54 PM
this strategy can work when there are lots of players in the pot because of the odds. but keep in mind that you are risking a lot of money with a project, so in fact you are semi bluffing a possible good hand such as a flush or a straight. but if you dont have the best straight or flush you would be drawing dead,when someone has a better project. also you have to consider the flop, it is not the same AQ3 than 693, in the first case someone could be having set of queens or aces, maybe double pair and that will be very disadvantageous, because they are taking outs for you. so its not becaming profitable as the odds of winning the hand would be pretty low. on the other side a low flop like 693, can make you win lot of money, because there isnt so many hands that beat you. it really depends on the type of players you are facing and the flop cards.