I tilted really bad last night but got lucky in the end ADIVCE NEEDED PLEASE

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RamdeeBen

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Wow...I'm mad with myself. I really thought I had my tilt under control and hadn't really tilted for a long while but really need some advice now.

I was playing the micros $0.01/$0.02as normal and think I had around 7 tables up which is the normal amount.

I was grinding for 2hours or so and played around 2k hands and was up around $2.00 and then in the matter of 5minutes I'd lost a massive $10.00 which is a lot for micros..

I wouldn't of minded if I felt I was being or outplayed but I don't believe I was. It wasn't the standard Aces, being cracked it was much worse and weirdly it was in 2 of the tables where I made most money that night. I buy-in for 100BB\s and keep it at 100BB at all times but these 2 tables I'd hit $5-$6 on each and both got stacked of against stacks of the same sizes.

My full house on one was beaten by a higher fullhouse, the worse of it was he called my raise preflop with some garbage but hit the nuts.The second was I raised in position 7BB with A,K suited. This guy called with 8,J OS..Flop was 9,10,K.I bet pot sized, he called. Turn was another King. I raised pot size again, he re-raise me all in. I thought hmm and called anyway expecting maybe K,Q at best and prepared myself for him having J,K full but just didn't wanna get away and still had confidence I had best hand and maybe he was on a draw. He shows over J,8 and the river is a Queen! He wins with the straight. It was something like that I quickly logged of because I was fuming..

Then bad play by me and calling raises I shouldn't of been doing and my money was dwindling away slowly but surely and I was down $15.00 in the space of 15minutes. All my hard work and this would take ages to "fix" I got really bad feeling about it and logged of from the lowest and loaded up 3 x $0.02/$0.05 and 3 x $0.05/$0.10.

I knew I was tilting but just couldn't help it I was so mad still.

Anyyyyway, I managed to win an all-in pre flop for $10.00 when I had queens and was re-raised allin I called probs knowing I was up against Aces,Kings but didn't care at this point. I was indeed up against Kings and I got lucky and hit my Queen for trips. This put me back in with a chance and I was only $5.00 down from my bad beats but kept playing when I should of just left and calmed down. I lost a $6.00 pot and won a few small ones etc and again found myself $10.00 down when I pick up 6'6s in early position and just limp. I had $15.00 stack at this point and the other guy had $16.00.. and I'll let the hand show you how it went.


pokerstars Game #53907791263: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2010/12/08 2:41:48 WET [2010/12/07 21:41:48 ET]
Table 'Spica' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: showtimesf ($12.28 in chips)
Seat 2: AALLPPIINNEE ($10 in chips)
Seat 3: BRAYD3N ($9.74 in chips)
Seat 4: allshkup ($7.80 in chips)
Seat 5: ramdeebam ($16.56 in chips)
Seat 6: upperground ($18.05 in chips)
showtimesf: posts small blind $0.05
AALLPPIINNEE: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ramdeebam [6c 6h]
BRAYD3N: folds
allshkup: folds
ramdeebam: calls $0.10
upperground: calls $0.10
showtimesf: folds
AALLPPIINNEE: checks
*** FLOP *** [6s Jh 2c]
AALLPPIINNEE: checks
ramdeebam: bets $0.20
upperground: calls $0.20
AALLPPIINNEE: folds
*** TURN *** [6s Jh 2c] [3c]
ramdeebam: bets $0.60
upperground: calls $0.60
*** RIVER *** [6s Jh 2c 3c] [As]
ramdeebam: bets $1
upperground: raises $1.30 to $2.30
ramdeebam: raises $1.30 to $3.60
upperground: raises $13.55 to $17.15 and is all-in
ramdeebam: calls $12.06 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($1.49) returned to upperground
*** SHOW DOWN ***
upperground: shows [2h 2d] (three of a kind, Deuces)
ramdeebam: shows [6c 6h] (three of a kind, Sixes)
ramdeebam collected $31.62 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $33.27 | Rake $1.65
Board [6s Jh 2c 3c As]
Seat 1: showtimesf (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: AALLPPIINNEE (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: BRAYD3N folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: allshkup folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ramdeebam showed [6c 6h] and won ($31.62) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 6: upperground (button) showed [2h 2d] and lost with three of a kind, Deuces



Now at this point I was happy but felt I was very lucky in the end to recoop my losses and don't intend doing this again and would love some advice on how to deal with this shit. I ended the day up $10.00 and was very thankful because at one point I was willing to nearly donk of all my bankroll..I thought when he raised all-in he had some sick straight and this would of sent me over the edge and would probarly be on here telling you now that I'd lost all my bankroll and how sick I was.

ps: I must point out I LOVED playing these limits so much more fun and the pots are huge but I was definitely playing with scared money as my BR is only $150.00 but I love the huge pots and action here and found it most enjoyable even before my "big" 30 dollar win when I took down $4.00/$5.00 pots with nothing and these sort of pots are pretty much un heard of in micros.

Thanks in advance.
 
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J

JMcCabe

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Not 100% sure what you're asking here. I think you know what you did goes against traditional BRM and it was caused by tilt.

Yes, you got lucky to get your money back this time, but next time you could end up losing a substantial portion of your role. I used to leave the computer and play Mario Kart on my Wii or a boxing game to unwind after bad beats (like your AK vs J8 hand).

As for the first hand you described, this wasn't a bad beat because the effective stacks were deep enough (300BB each) that he can call you with garbage occasionally with the correct implied odds (though FH/FH is basically a cooler, imo).

As far as moving up to NL5 or NL10 on a $150 bankroll, it all comes down to your relative skills as a player vs the field, your ability to table select, and whether or not your bankroll is replaceable.

Personally, I think you could play NL5 on that roll, so long as you limit the tables to 4 or less and a set up stopping point for when you go on a losing streak, so you can minimize the effect of tilt. But you should be making that decision based on your belief that you can crush the level and not because of the thrill of winning bigger pots.

Not sure if this was the response you wanted, but there it is.

GL and try not to do this again.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Thank, yeah that helped. I have considered moving to NL5 before but that would mean I only have 30buy-ins which I thought isn't enough? I've been going on the impression of 50+. At the minute I have 70buy-ins for the lowest limits but was going to get to $500 if possible before I moved up. Is that being to much of a BR nit you think?
 
doops

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Advice? Stop playing when you go on tilt.

The good thing is that you seem to know when you are losing it. Now use that knowledge with the shreds of your discipline.

Getting lucky at the end is beside the point. You know what you did wrong. You know you were lucky not to lose a good portion of your bankroll. Or even all of it. Think hard about that. Is that something you wish to do?
 
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RamdeeBen

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Advice? Stop playing when you go on tilt.

The good thing is that you seem to know when you are losing it. Now use that knowledge with the shreds of your discipline.

Getting lucky at the end is beside the point. You know what you did wrong. You know you were lucky not to lose a good portion of your bankroll. Or even all of it. Think hard about that. Is that something you wish to do?

I know I should be stopping that's the thing but I can't help myself. I know that doesn't stand me in good stead really but usually I can stop just yesterday I couldn't. I think it has something to do with the fact over the past few days I'v played around 10k hands and made some profit +$10.00 and then when I realised I've just lost all that in two hands it made me think about my "hard" work over the past two days to then just go and be back to square one from 2 hands.

If i'm having a "good" day and winning small pots and building my roll I obviously start to play tighter and so on. I think I must just have an addictive personality problem..
 
acky100

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Ive done that before and you're lucky you didnt lose even more of ure roll, as for 50 buy ins needed to move up to 5 NL? waaaayyy too nitty, 20-30 buy ins maximum for microstakes as play is pretty much the same just with more money on the table, ive just moved to 5nl with 22 buy ins the other day, but if you dont move up between 20-30 buy ins then you're gonna be paying more rake for no reason and not winning as much as you could be... just move up already and if you lose say 4 buy ins move back down to 2nl until you get back to ure 30 buyins.... This is what bankroll management is all about, not being nitty! good luck
 
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RamdeeBen

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I never intended to be nitty and kept to BR management. I was just under the impression that 50+ buy-ins was recommended as opposed to 30. Many say 100 buy-ins to be safe is even better..
 
Stu_Ungar

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I know I should be stopping that's the thing but I can't help myself. I know that doesn't stand me in good stead really but usually I can stop just yesterday I couldn't. I think it has something to do with the fact over the past few days I'v played around 10k hands and made some profit +$10.00 and then when I realised I've just lost all that in two hands it made me think about my "hard" work over the past two days to then just go and be back to square one from 2 hands.

If i'm having a "good" day and winning small pots and building my roll I obviously start to play tighter and so on. I think I must just have an addictive personality problem..

Get a copy of Elements of Poker

Read, reread etc.

It deals with this quite extensively.

As for losing $10.. I lost almost $400 last night (FH vs FH vs FH, set over set twice, Nut flush vst straight flush. AA vs JJ all in preflop) and then the usual stuff aswell.

But as is the way with poker, I have just made $300 in under 2 hrs and am quitting for the day simply so that I will go to sleep happy tonight.

THe thing is you need to learn to deal with tilt becaue its something that is going to come up a lot and in the LR, the player who tilts and dosent do anything to control that has a much lower winrate than the player that deals with tilt well
 
vanquish

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jesus, 100 buy ins for micro stakes?
 
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RamdeeBen

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jesus, 100 buy ins for micro stakes?

Well what do you mean by the comment? I'm guessing you're saying something like you don't need that many buy-ins? If so, then please explain why it's any different in terms of BR management to say slightly higher limits?

I learn one thing from the site then someone says something different from the site, it's like I don't know where I stand hehe...

So what really IS the correct amount of buy-ins needed for cash games?
 
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RamdeeBen

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Get a copy of Elements of Poker

Read, reread etc.

It deals with this quite extensively.

As for losing $10.. I lost almost $400 last night (FH vs FH vs FH, set over set twice, Nut flush vst straight flush. AA vs JJ all in preflop) and then the usual stuff aswell.

But as is the way with poker, I have just made $300 in under 2 hrs and am quitting for the day simply so that I will go to sleep happy tonight.

THe thing is you need to learn to deal with tilt becaue its something that is going to come up a lot and in the LR, the player who tilts and dosent do anything to control that has a much lower winrate than the player that deals with tilt well


Wow yeah that sounds bad, how do you deal with it yourself personally? Keep playing ? Also, what the hell sort of stakes do you play to lose so much in one session? I could never dream of losing that much. lol
 
Stu_Ungar

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Well what do you mean by the comment? I'm guessing you're saying something like you don't need that many buy-ins? If so, then please explain why it's any different in terms of BR management to say slightly higher limits?

I learn one thing from the site then someone says something different from the site, it's like I don't know where I stand hehe...

So what really IS the correct amount of buy-ins needed for cash games?


Well first up, there is not such thing as BR management at 2NL. Pick a number.. any number.. thats how many buyins you need to play 2NL.. now lest say you drop below that figure.. where do you go?

Second, for micros you really only need 20 buyins. As you get towards 100NL you need to ramp that up to 100 buyins.

The main reason for the higher number of buyins is that as you go up stakes, your winrate decreases and therefore you need more buyins to absorb variance. Anyone playing under 100NL who plays 50K hands and shows a loss is far more likely to be playing badly than experiencing varience, because no matter how bad you run, there are still many oppertunities to get the money in good. As you rise in stakes, people dont pay you off as much and therefore your winrate drops.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Wow yeah that sounds bad, how do you deal with it yourself personally? Keep playing ? Also, what the hell sort of stakes do you play to lose so much in one session? I could never dream of losing that much. lol

I play 5NL :)
 
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RamdeeBen

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I see, thanks..however just one question.

Surely there is a limit in terms of micro limit stake where you say you only need a very small amount of buy-ins. Like I posted earlier I tilted and went to 0.05/0.10 and really didn't feel comfortable at these limits and was playing scared even though I managed to soak up a $30.00 pot. This was surely out of my BR to be playing those limits? Or you saying I could without fear of going bust because micros stem all the way $0.10/$0.25 and I most certainly wouldn't have much play with my current BR playing those or are you referring to mainly 2NL/5NL/10NL maximum in terms of 20buy-ins being enough?

Thanks buddy.

EDIT: You're taking the bicuit when you say you play 5NL? As in 0.02/0.05?
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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You just have to learn to deal with it.

Get elements of poker.

I read it last night as I wasnt going to play any more that day and ChuckTs reconmended it.

When you run bad, there is no point to continuing. How much do you expect to earn in 1hour? Say you win at 2NL at 10bb/100 and play 10 tables.

Your hourly rate wont be much more than 40c per table per hour so a max of $4

You wont make your money back unless you hit a really good run.

However when you become tilted you will play worse, so your winrate will drop.. it could even become negative. The difference between a huge winner and a breakeven player looks enormous when viewed in terms of bb/100 However over 50K hands that translates into only a few pots difference.

So tilt can really harm your winrate.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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I see, thanks..however just one question.

Surely there is a limit in terms of micro limit stake where you say you only need a very small amount of buy-ins. Like I posted earlier I tilted and went to 0.05/0.10 and really didn't feel comfortable at these limits and was playing scared even though I managed to soak up a $30.00 pot. This was surely out of my BR to be playing those limits? Or you saying I could without fear of going bust because micros stem all the way $0.10/$0.25 and I most certainly wouldn't have much play with my current BR playing those or are you referring to mainly 2NL/5NL/10NL maximum in terms of 20buy-ins being enough?

Thanks buddy.

EDIT: You're taking the bicuit when you say you play 5NL? As in 0.02/0.05?


After 25NL you need to start increasing the number of buyins
 
Stu_Ungar

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EDIT: You're taking the bicuit when you say you play 5NL? As in 0.02/0.05?


LOL yes.

I play 50NL.. $400 represents about the same amount of buyins as when you lost $10 at 2NL.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Ok thanks for the advice. Think I'm gonna still stick to the lowest but also have 5nl aswell see how I get on. Can I ask though, what actually is the point in 2NL if the skill level is the same? Purely for people with smaller BR's?
 
Stu_Ungar

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Ok thanks for the advice. Think I'm gonna still stick to the lowest but also have 5nl aswell see how I get on. Can I ask though, what actually is the point in 2NL if the skill level is the same? Purely for people with smaller BR's?

There has to be a lowest limit.

2NL is for those who are happy to gamble for a cheeseburger but are not yet willing to gamble for the whole happy meal :)

There just has to be a lowest limit and obviously the poker sites feel that it makes them money so they offer 2NL
 
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RamdeeBen

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lol, love the term on the mc donalds burgers!

Right, great thanks for the replies and stuff its been most helpful. I hope it goes well now lol.

Cheerio.
 
thunder1276

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and I thought I was a bankroll nit. 20 or 25 buy ins is plenty to withstand a hit if you can control your tilt. You are never going to get better unless you challenge yourself. I would stay at the .02 .05 until you get up to $200. I definitely know how you feel though. I always feel bad about my play if my BR goes down a significant amount so I like to play a little below what my BR can withhold. the difference between .01 .02 and .02 .05 is below minimal at best. Just play how your playing at the slightly higher level and you will see your BR building much faster.
 
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