I need help, BR dying rapidly.

BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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Hey,

I've played 22k hands right now at 25nl, 6-max.
It started out well and my winnings went up in a fast way, obviously there was some luck involved, but I really felt like I was playing well, And now I just seem to make mistake after mistake, and I went from being up 300 dollars, to being down 200 in 15k hands.
Now I've noticed my sessions are all pretty much the same:
First everything goes well, and I make a small profit/loss.
Next I get impatient and lose a big hand by doing something stupid, example:
pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (CO) ($25)
Button ($29.33)
SB ($53.89)
BB ($25)
UTG ($59.08)
MP ($27.91)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q
heart.gif
, A
heart.gif

1 fold, MP bets $0.70, Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, MP calls $1.05

Flop: ($3.85) 10
diamond.gif
, 7
heart.gif
, 8
diamond.gif
(2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3.85) A
spade.gif
(2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $2.75, MP raises to $26.16 (All-In), Hero calls $20.50 (All-In)

River: ($50.35) K
diamond.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $50.35 | Rake: $2

Results below:
MP had 7
club.gif
, 8
spade.gif
(two pair, eights and sevens).
Hero had Q
heart.gif
, A
heart.gif
(one pair, Aces).
Outcome: MP won $48.35


Obviously I usually wouldn't call there, but after 200 hands of barely any action I got tempted to call. Now I've attached the graph of this session, and pointed out the hand above.
as you can see, not long after the hand it went down like crazy, and this happens all the time.

As you see I'm losing money like a crazy man this way, and I had 2 of these sessions today.
What should I do? thanks.
 

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ScottishMatt

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Seems like you need to learn some patience. 200 hands is nothing, I've went entire sessions with very little action. You keep making bad moves/calls and hoping that someone is finally making a play. Well that isn't how it works, they will be making a play if all the information suggests they are. How in the hell do you call that turn shove? You have a relatively weak hand and you are calling a turn shove, which is, by the way, just about the strongest move someone can make at the microstakes.


Honestly man, once you play 2-3000 hands and have no action then you can bitch. If you need a faster pace try Zoom. Although if you are serious about poker, which I'm going to assume you are, then I wouldn't recommend it.

You already know where your issue lies so take steps to prevent it. I know if I play too few tables I get bored and start browsing. Maybe you need to keep yourself interested in the game, have some tunes playing in the background of your session, maybe try one more table. I don't think you are mass multitabling, because 200 hands in to a session is nothing. But if you are then I suggest you cut back on tables and focus more on your play.


It may seem like I'm taking a swing at you here. And that's because I am. Trust me man. Patience is one of the most important attributes you can have, and the sooner you stop being a little pussy because you ain't getting no action, the better.

So, what should you do? Man up and find some discipline.


Tough love homie. This is what you need right now.
 
BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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Thanks for your response, I'm indeed very impatient, and my impatience leads to mistakes which lead to tilt.
I try playing 4 tables at the moment, but I feel like my sessions where I play 3 tables go way better.

Also do you think buying tiltbreaker is a good idea?
 
bezobrazny

bezobrazny

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First thing you should do is stop playing for a while.
 
aa88wildbill

aa88wildbill

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Why didn't you bet on the flop, to see where you were in the hand. It would've been easier for you to get away from it, before the ace came out!
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Whats your bankroll, imo should be 750 minimum for 25nl unless a proven winner over a big sample (100k+) in the past.
 
tenbob

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A single hand in isolation means nothing.

Your bankroll is important as to what limits you play, I stongly disagree with the above poster, maybe 2 years ago that would be true, but the games are tougher now. To play nl$25 6 max you should have a BR of $1K++
 
Chronical23

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good post thank you for sharing i do something similar and spotted a flaw in my own game
 
A

AlwaysPlanAhe

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A single hand in isolation means nothing.

Your bankroll is important as to what limits you play, I stongly disagree with the above poster, maybe 2 years ago that would be true, but the games are tougher now. To play nl$25 6 max you should have a BR of $1K++

How does someone beating a game for 2bb/100 in 2013 with an SD of x, need more of a bankroll than someone beating a game for 2bb/100 in 2011 with an SD of x? Surely identical BRM applies to any player beating any game for 2bb/100 regardless of whether it's a current game or a game against Marty and Doc in the Delorean back in 1985.
 
tenbob

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How does someone beating a game for 2bb/100 in 2013 with an SD of x, need more of a bankroll than someone beating a game for 2bb/100 in 2011 with an SD of x? Surely identical BRM applies to any player beating any game for 2bb/100 regardless of whether it's a current game or a game against Marty and Doc in the Delorean back in 1985.

Best post ever.

I shall reply tomorrow when i am sober............
 
BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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My br is 1.3k, so I'm well rolled for 25nl,
Btw a question for otherp players at the same level;
All my winnings are from hands that get to showdown, my red line is veryy low, is this a big leak?
 
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swingro

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My br is 1.3k, so I'm well rolled for 25nl,
Btw a question for otherp players at the same level;
All my winnings are from hands that get to showdown, my red line is veryy low, is this a big leak?
Pls put your stats here.
8 buy-ins are not a big loss in my opinion. Filter your losing hands and see where you lost most of your money and put those hands online so we can comment. We will probabely tell you if it is a suck-up or bad play. But be honest because it is not a shame if you played bad , it is a shame if you do not want to learn.
 
A

aircasar9876

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I dont think you need a bankroll of over a grand to play those limits. honestly when I have over a grand id play 50./1 tables. (if i played cash) at sit and goes id be playing 20-40 buy ins at least. if you play for a living maybe you need more comfort but i guess i just live on the edge....my only advice is maybe that cash games arent your thing. I dont do well on cash usually because of lack of patience but i can get rolling with sit and goes. maybe you want to switch it up
 
BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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With stats you mean vpip/pfr/3b etc? Ill post them later this aftrrnoon together with some big hands.

And air, I starte out playing sngs but I don't like the way they play, only other option are mtt's, i've played 45mans a while, but the problem is that I'm still in school, I have a break for a few months now, but when I start again I won't have the time to play 7 hour long mtt's.
 
Cafeman

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Horrendous call on the turn, but you know that already.

Agree with TB, give yourself a lot of BIs in your BR, the more the better. If you know your edge is huge you can be more aggressive with your BR, but even so...

I can't remember exactly how the quote goes, but someone asked Tommy Angelo about BR management, and he replied asking the guy if he had double would he feel better about it, he replied yes, so Tommy simply said, double it then. Point being, you need to be able to play without giving a second thought to how losing a BI here and there affects your BR. You can't have that hanging over you while trying to make the best decisions at the table.
 
P

postflopper

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FWIW i think it was a horrendous shove by villian
 
BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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Some trouble hands:
First is JJ on the button,
I really have trouble with JJ and TT facing 4-bets, should I just fold at these stakes?

Anyway, Villain plays 53/13 and is a big fish.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

CO ($62.45)
Hero (Button) ($67.29)
SB ($23.81)
BB ($54.65)
UTG ($27.20)
MP ($61.95)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J
diamond.gif
, J
heart.gif

2 folds, CO bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, BB raises to $6.90, 1 fold, Hero calls $4.90

Flop: ($14.95) 4
club.gif
, 2
diamond.gif
, 8
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($14.95) 6
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $9, Hero calls $9

River: ($32.95) 8
heart.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $19, Hero calls $19

Total pot: $70.95 | Rake: $2

Results below:
Hero didn't show J
diamond.gif
, J
heart.gif
(nothing).
BB had A
spade.gif
, A
diamond.gif
(two pair, Aces and eights).
Outcome: BB won $68.95





Hand 2:
villain plays 47/43 plays very aggressive.



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (UTG) ($45.93)
MP ($23.95)
Button ($34.12)
SB ($32.69)
BB ($12.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 10
heart.gif
, A
diamond.gif

Hero bets $0.75, 2 folds, SB raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.25

Flop: ($6.25) 10
club.gif
, 2
spade.gif
, 6
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4, SB calls $4

Turn: ($14.25) 10
spade.gif
(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $20, hero???


Hand 3, I decded to fold the river as I can only beat a bluff, Any mistakes here?
Villain is 17/14/6,0

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Hero (Button) ($25.06)
SB ($27.62)
BB ($44.20)
UTG ($51.72)
MP ($33.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J
spade.gif
, A
diamond.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $0.75, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.75

Flop: ($5.10) Q
spade.gif
, 8
heart.gif
, A
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75

Turn: ($10.60) 3
spade.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $5.55, Hero calls $5.55

River: ($21.70) 2
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $20.75, Hero folds

Total pot: $21.70 | Rake: $0.98

Results below:
BB didn't show
 
tenbob

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How does someone beating a game for 2bb/100 in 2013 with an SD of x, need more of a bankroll than someone beating a game for 2bb/100 in 2011 with an SD of x? Surely identical BRM applies to any player beating any game for 2bb/100 regardless of whether it's a current game or a game against Marty and Doc in the Delorean back in 1985.

I didnt say that, i simply said that the games are tougher, and they are. If I got your Delorean and went back to play Doyle 50 years ago the average nl$25 grinder would crush the games. When the games are tougher you need more buyins to play at the same levels.

I dont think you need a bankroll of over a grand to play those limits. honestly when I have over a grand id play 50./1 tables. (if i played cash) at sit and goes id be playing 20-40 buy ins at least. if you play for a living maybe you need more comfort but i guess i just live on the edge....my only advice is maybe that cash games arent your thing. I dont do well on cash usually because of lack of patience but i can get rolling with sit and goes. maybe you want to switch it up

Then you will end up broke, even if you are a top notch player.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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i dont think you need a positive red line to beat 25nl, and making modifications to your game to try and get a positive red line could be costly.

Perhaps you need to find a better balance between val betting and pot controlling.

And the above three hands.

Hand one is probably a set mining operation as playing deep.
Hand two, if your not happy to get it in with trips top kicker, why are you even playing Ace Ten?
Hand three, as hand two pretty much
 
acky100

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YOU DONT need a positive red line to beat ANY LIMIT

OP, did you start at 25nl or did you work your way up? I can't imagine hardly anyone beating 25nl if they just jump straight in to it, not these days anyways. Move down to 10nl and see how it goes perhaps, whilst working on your game, 20 bi swings aren't too uncommon but should be pretty rare at 25nl for a good player.
 
A

AlwaysPlanAhe

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I didnt say that, i simply said that the games are tougher, and they are.

Ahhh in that case you mis-read "starting at the bottoms" original post. He said if you're a proven winner at the stakes then etc etc. You disagreed with his post and started comparing games now to 2 years ago which had nothing to do with what he was saying.
 
SyKoChiller

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Its easy to say; hard to do, but in these sits I try to leave the table when slides of fortune like that happen to me. It's probably best to switch sites when your luck fades on one. If you only have one account; switch tables.
Like most things in life Luck is cyclical.
 
BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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OP, did you start at 25nl or did you work your way up? I can't imagine hardly anyone beating 25nl if they just jump straight in to it, not these days anyways. Move down to 10nl and see how it goes perhaps, whilst working on your game, 20 bi swings aren't too uncommon but should be pretty rare at 25nl for a good player.

I made my BR playing 5 and 10nl FR.
Would you still suggest moving down because I have no experience on lower stakes in 6max?
 
dj11

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Totally stop playing for 1 week. Get out and enjoy the spring. Clear your mind of the perceived bad beats, and your runbad.

Come back a week from now and re-evaluate.
 
BvBrMTW

BvBrMTW

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I think taking a break might be a good idea indeed,
It's just that because of not having school I don't have anything to do right now (my friends all still have to go to school) So I'm geting out as much as I can, but I'm still sitting home a lot of the time.

How about maybe playing PLO for a week? Is that the same as getting my mind of of the grinding?
 
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