Did I make a mistake with QQ?

Lefty Blue

Lefty Blue

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Online micro stakes, full ring.
New game, no idea of players history.
QQ in late position.
2 players bet 2 BB's and I raised to 4 BB's.
1 caller.
Flop 10-x-x but straight and flush draw.
Villain had twice my stack and bet 4 BB's and I raised to 8. He re-raised and I shoved all in.
Although he called and I beat his JJ I have a feeling I made a mistake.
Opinions please.
 
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Nick301274

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risky, if straight and flush draw, but it justifies
 
Gohaku94

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You should be more specific about exact stack sizes, positions and some more things. But with this information the first thing would be for You to raise bigger preflop to something like 10bb not just 4. The rest i don't know for how many bbs you shoved but If your opponent is a loose player your shove is ok.
 
quick

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Need more info but as presented, you should have raised bigger pre flop (like 8-12bb).

Then on the flop I think it's ok the shove call. I learned in a recent session first hand how popular the "shove strong draws" move has become with a lot of players. Sure sometimes this villian shove is a set or even rarer an overpair flatted to the pre-flop raise but often if the villian is loose and aggressive and understands the odds, they'll shove things like straight draw/flush draw combos here.
 
tihomir_kula

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I started to play DD all in to escape situatiions like that,but the result is not always possitive 60-70%.
 
vapandrei

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Online micro stakes, full ring.
New game, no idea of players history.
QQ in late position.
2 players bet 2 BB's and I raised to 4 BB's.
1 caller.
Flop 10-x-x but straight and flush draw.
Villain had twice my stack and bet 4 BB's and I raised to 8. He re-raised and I shoved all in.
Although he called and I beat his JJ I have a feeling I made a mistake.
Opinions please.

If you won, you didn't make a mistake. It doesn't seem like the V wanted to bluff a flush or a straight, he just though he had top pair. He was wrong. It could've gone either way really, he could've had KK.
 
MattRyder

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The 3-bet sizing pre-flop is critical. The last thing you want is to lose to some weak, speculative hand that might get lucky, but shouldn't have seen the flop in the first place. Happens all the time.

On the flop - you said it yourself, very wet board. Jamming with one over-pair (e.g., QhQs) against something like Jd9d on a board like Td8d6c is a coin-flip (50:50). Against a hand like JdAd is also a coin flip (53:47). Against JdKd is also a coin flip (53:47). Against 6d5d is a coin flip on the other side of negative (49:51). Even a hand like QdJd is a coin flip 53:47). Any all diamond hand is going to call.

Your odds are better against Jc9c (73:27).

Against 6s6h you're way behind (12:88).

So, LOTS of ways to lose. Most players with the cards mentioned above are going to make the call against your jam on the flop, but you only have strength against one of them (Jc9c). The question is do you really want them to make that call, or are you trying to scare them off? A blank on the turn increases your odds of winning a lot. Would you be better to play the hand out to the showdown?
 
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4soul

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maybe could be better to raise more preflop :) better void these situations.....:D
 
malakata19

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It was very risky to re-raise with the projects you mentioned and your raise from your position should be a little more maybe 5 or 6 BB. But in the end you had good results. Good luck at the tables !!!
 
Robochick

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Based on the information, I don't think it was "bad"...a bit risky, but there are some times you have to pick your time to accept the risk and QQ is pretty good.
 
Lefty Blue

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Thanks to all for the feedback. Now comes the hard part, getting all these great thoughts to go into my less than great brain.
Thanks again.
 
Lefty Blue

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Thanks to all for the feedback. Now comes the hard part, getting all these great thoughts to go into my less than great brain.
Thanks again.
 
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DUSTIN BRYAN

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its penny stakes they will get it in with top pair and sometimes draws
 
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Fastone2

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No, you had good starting cards. But, you could of went all in and had a better chance to win....
 
TinkCzru

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The short answer is yes. KK-AKs all could’ve been a possibility. More aggro pre flop, and depending on callers it’s always better to check oop on draw heavy boards. Very lucky but nh
 
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mikeisthebestever

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Short and sweet. We dont have enough info on that actual hand to accurately know if you made a mistake here.

If you have 200bbs for instance and the villain covers you, what do you think his calling range of your shove looks like? Combo draws? Sets? 2 pairs? Overpairs? It sounds like in this case he had literally the only possible hand you MIGHT have been ahead of [you didnt tell us the actual board or cards, JhJd on a 10h 9h 8c board for instance might still be a flip.]


The point is that you want to get your money in when you are going to be called by a worse hand, OR fold out a better one. I dont think you have successfully done either in this hand. He may have had the ONE hand that is worse and might call, but that is pretty results oriented, because normally players dont punt off their stacks like that.

Quick edit: On the flip side of that, if you were short stacked you should have 3-bet to a size that would allow for a reasonable flop shove and just gone with it barring an ace on the board. [Which you might have, again you gave us very little]
 
Shalarin

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NICE ANSWERES.....but this is the reason because I play no cash :-(
 
Bozovicdj

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You should be more specific about the hand, especially about the other two cards. It is not the same thing if it was T98 board or T53 board. Both boards have straight draws, but with the second one, it is less likely opponent has one.
As far as the play, like everyone said, bigger pre flop raise definitely. After your 3-bet to just 4BB, you are giving player on the bb good odds to call, which is then giving even better odds to call for two players who already payed 2BB. With a strong hand such as QQ, you don't want 2 or 3 people to call and outflop you on some rubbish T high board.

Flop play, either raise more, or just call. Min raising almost always looks very very week, and is inviting for shoves. Once your opponent shoved, you ended up in a bad spot, whether to call or not. You did, you won, but I m not sure that people will always shove like that with an overpair, especially JJ (I'd say general shove range is either a draw to the nuts, or set/2pair on drawing boards).
 
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domdiego

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I believe that 3bet or more you could start on the pre flop to scare a stronger opponent than you that were unsure, your chance increases, but it depends on the number of stack you have, if you are strong with many chips, it can be a good one. depends on the tournament you are playing for eg low buyin almost always you can not surprise too many players with 3bet
 
Robochick

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You should be more specific about the hand, especially about the other two cards. It is not the same thing if it was T98 board or T53 board. Both boards have straight draws, but with the second one, it is less likely opponent has one.
As far as the play, like everyone said, bigger pre flop raise definitely. After your 3-bet to just 4BB, you are giving player on the bb good odds to call, which is then giving even better odds to call for two players who already payed 2BB. With a strong hand such as QQ, you don't want 2 or 3 people to call and outflop you on some rubbish T high board.

Flop play, either raise more, or just call. Min raising almost always looks very very week, and is inviting for shoves. Once your opponent shoved, you ended up in a bad spot, whether to call or not. You did, you won, but I m not sure that people will always shove like that with an overpair, especially JJ (I'd say general shove range is either a draw to the nuts, or set/2pair on drawing boards).
I totally agree with this one, nice post Bozovicdj.

I posted based on the player not considering the other two cards as significant and I thought it might be at the level that they are thinking, but I didn't want to assume they weren't thinking about the other two cards.


Of course, at CC we like to have as detailed blow-by-blow as possible. I think you are encouraging the OP to think about their analysis of their hand. They may have only posted the elements they were thinking about at the time because that was the limit of their current analysis and your post will help them think in a deeper way. Or they may have been in the heat of the moment and not able to note all the details.


Either way, I think your post is helpful. I think you were respectful, critical, and constructive.
 
Bozovicdj

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Either way, I think your post is helpful. I think you were respectful, critical, and constructive.

Hey hey, that's my teammate :)
 
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we will rock you

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nice win i would reraised 10 bb before flop
 
ssory83

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If there is only 10 x x in the flop, you did not make a mistake. You could just bet that your opponent has the AA, KK, or even 1010. But you were only lucky to have JJ. Queens are very dangerous. They have to be played on the flop. In my opinion.

 
dimon4ik89

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I think you played your card correctly

I think you played your card correctly. Do not depend on what card you have on your hand, there is always a chance that BadBit will happen and you will lose. In this situation, you were lucky, because you were stronger and you won, you did everything right. If you play QQ not so aggressively, then there is a big chance that you will lose to opponents with a weaker card. And if you raise too much, you can scare your opponents and everyone will make a pass.
 
vavilen_

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2 opponents raise to 2bb you had to raise a minimum to 7bb you need to squeeze out small pockets and better play with someone 1 on 1! making a flat raise you gave a good chance to the bank your opponents, this time you are lucky but next time you will be punished
 
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