Did I make a bad move? (still won hand)

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champ_mc99

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PF: Villain limps in middle position - I raise with pocket 10s on button and he calls.

Flop comes 2 4 7 rainbow

Villain checks so I raise 3/4 pot. Villain then makes a 3-bet.

I then thought for a moment - I could either fold or shove since he was either bluffing or had a 7?

I shove and villain calls showing 4 2 - this hand completely crossed my mind - limp call makes so much sense.

Turn comes A followed by an A on the river (woohoo!)

Bad beat for villain (for a change lol) but was it a bad play by me? We both had around the buy-in stack preflop.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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I assume this is the microstakes so my advice is as follows.

You say "I could either fold or shove since he was either bluffing or had a 7?"

This is poor logic because you are putting villain on exactly air and A7. This is the microstakes, you will find players limp calling with a massive wide range of hands.

Then we need to also consider that the average microstake player is not going to check raise as a bluff, especially as you raised pre and bet the flop. Therefore in this situation I would probably give villain a range of something like

22,44,77 A7,67,78,K7s I know he didnt have any of those, but normally it would make more sense.

Now, when you 3bet shove the flop you are just giving him the chance to fold the hands that you can beat which isnt very good in the long term.

I like the raise pre flop, but in this case (because the board is pretty dry) you are better off just calling the raise on the flop in my opinion and let them think they still have the best hand if they have top pair rather than give them the chance to make a good fold when you shove.

I suggest you read up on "levels of thought in poker". Seems to me you need work in this area.
 
nucl

nucl

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I assume this is the microstakes so my advice is as follows.

You say "I could either fold or shove since he was either bluffing or had a 7?"

This is poor logic because you are putting villain on exactly air and A7. This is the microstakes, you will find players limp calling with a massive wide range of hands.

Then we need to also consider that the average microstake player is not going to check raise as a bluff, especially as you raised pre and bet the flop. Therefore in this situation I would probably give villain a range of something like

22,44,77 A7,67,78,K7s I know he didnt have any of those, but normally it would make more sense.

Now, when you 3bet shove the flop you are just giving him the chance to fold the hands that you can beat which isnt very good in the long term.

I like the raise pre flop, but in this case (because the board is pretty dry) you are better off just calling the raise on the flop in my opinion and let them think they still have the best hand if they have top pair rather than give them the chance to make a good fold when you shove.

I suggest you read up on "levels of thought in poker". Seems to me you need work in this area.
I agree with you man.

The best play here is to flat on every street and let him value himself with medium value hands.With shoving you are making him throw away his airs and sometimes call with 7x.With folding you are going to be exploitable and in the long run is a losing strategy.
 
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tuka123

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If someone limps-calls pre-flop, then check raise on such a flop I would rather believe he had a small pair pre flop now made into a set. No one raises with a only a pair of 7 or something like except a bull maybe, but even then -- all in with a pair of tens?
 
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champ_mc99

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If I did flat call the raise, surely he would just bet the turn and one way or another I feel as though we would both be all in by the river due to the large size of his 3-bet? Would he bet on the turn with A7 after I call?
 
DougPkrMonsta

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Assuming this is 100bb's deep I think you overplayed your hand here.

Probably fine in a tournament or shorter-stack situation or against more aggressive opposition than you will find at microstakes.

Generally speaking if you get your whole stack into the pot you will be behind with one pair the majority of the time.

Good luck to you! :D
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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If I did flat call the raise, surely he would just bet the turn and one way or another I feel as though we would both be all in by the river due to the large size of his 3-bet? Would he bet on the turn with A7 after I call?

You need to go back and remove his actual holding from the hand review and consider ranges (and not just air /A7). You need to consider that he will not have two pair all the time, therefore if we just flat we keep his bluffing range, and pairs that you beat in the hand.

Dont look at a hand review specially as "villain had this, what could I have done differenly". You need to be thinking "villain did this, what range can he have, and therefore what is my best line against such a range"

However, if you must look at this one hand in total isolation, if villain bets the turn, you need to ask yourself "Would this type of player be betting again with a worse hand than pocket tens?" If they would you can call, if not you should fold. Legit that simple.

Would he bet on the turn with A7? It depends on the turn card and the villain, dont you think?
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

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I assume this is the microstakes so my advice is as follows.

You say "I could either fold or shove since he was either bluffing or had a 7?"

This is poor logic because you are putting villain on exactly air and A7. This is the microstakes, you will find players limp calling with a massive wide range of hands.

Then we need to also consider that the average microstake player is not going to check raise as a bluff, especially as you raised pre and bet the flop. Therefore in this situation I would probably give villain a range of something like

22,44,77 A7,67,78,K7s I know he didnt have any of those, but normally it would make more sense.

Now, when you 3bet shove the flop you are just giving him the chance to fold the hands that you can beat which isnt very good in the long term.

I like the raise pre flop, but in this case (because the board is pretty dry) you are better off just calling the raise on the flop in my opinion and let them think they still have the best hand if they have top pair rather than give them the chance to make a good fold when you shove.

I suggest you read up on "levels of thought in poker". Seems to me you need work in this area.

Correct.You will only get called by worse bad shove
 
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