i cannot beat the bad play at ccg. insight plz.

Hi, i have been playing poker in the chicago casinos since i was 16. i am very well rounded at all skills and all games. i ground out a nice profit at the 1/2 and 2/5 games and havent to work for the last 4 years. bout 6 months ago i was arrested and banned from all the casinos for the next year. Now i have to play at chicago charitble games, AKA home of the donkeys. aside from a few heater sessions were i caught evry card in the deck, i cannot beat the bad play consistantly. and when i say bad play i mean terrible. here are a cpl examples from $1/$2 NL

1. Folded to on the button i raise to $12 with JH,10H the BB calls and the flop comes Js 10d 2s he checks i bet 16 he flats, witch tells me almost 90% he is on a draw. a big hand shld always raise cuz of the drawing board. the turn is a blank and he checks again. i bet 75 to make sure he has no odds to call. he flats anyway. river is a spade he checks again and i shut it down. he flips over 8s 6s

2. a guy has been semi bluffing big bets with draws alnight. i flop middle set and check raise the flop, he ships. i kno that he has a draw, the problem is ther is no geting him off the hand now, he put all his chips in and WILL SEE 5 CARDS. what am i supposed to do fold my set.

3. Im in the cutoff and 4 ppl limp in front of me. I got AK suited. I raise to $16 and both the blinds and the 4 limpers all call. Flop comes evrythng but me.

Any1 hav any exp beating crazy play like this ill b glad to take som advise

try some online poker, i am sure you will find a game you like.

1. Folded to on the button i raise to $12 with JH,10H the BB calls and the flop comes Js 10d 2s he checks i bet 16 he flats, witch tells me almost 90% he is on a draw. a big hand shld always raise cuz of the drawing board. the turn is a blank and he checks again. i bet 75 to make sure he has no odds to call. he flats anyway. river is a spade he checks again and i shut it down. he flips over 8s 6s

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He hit his spade draw when you gave him terrible odds. Not much you can do. The majority of times this happens, you'll take all of his chips.

2. a guy has been semi bluffing big bets with draws alnight. i flop middle set and check raise the flop, he ships. i kno that he has a draw, the problem is ther is no geting him off the hand now, he put all his chips in and WILL SEE 5 CARDS. what am i supposed to do fold my set.

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You folded a set against someone you identified as a donkey? You need to seriously rethink that, seeing a donkey shove when I have a set is like a dream. =O

3. Im in the cutoff and 4 ppl limp in front of me. I got AK suited. I raise to $16 and both the blinds and the 4 limpers all call. Flop comes evrythng but me.

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It's something like...1 in 3 to hit an ace or king on the flop with AK. Sounds like you got married to AK and got burned or something. Can't do that.

Different rake and possibly different buy in amounts?

If u play that lo live, its not good to be aggressive unless u got the pot locked up. Move the aggression throttle waaaaaaaay down, they’ll pay u off when u have a locked up hand anyway.

Ppl playing that lo don’t know poker strategy or odds or anything, lol they just wanna play. U shouldn’t get mad if they get lucky on u cuz they don’t know what theyre doing anyway. Its like getting angry at a baby for screaming or when a child does something silly, just deal with it.


With the ak hand.. . . normally id tell u its time to leave that table. . . it simply shows a bluff to any of those ppl is a no- no. they’ll call u down with anything. U gotta play the board accordingly on the flop and be prepared to ditch it if u don’t hit the board, even with the pot, because u just cant bluff em.

Play solid str8forward poker- without bluffing, - without the odds and advanced poker strategy.

If u don’t, ur just gonna get frustrated because ur expecting them to know what u know and play accordingly- it aint gonna happen. .. lolo u want to play the opposite of the aggressive stuff of the higher stakes. Take it easy and relax. They’ll pay u off.

You know what u got to do, just go against popular poker beliefs and play the table accordingly. Save the odds and poker strategy for the higher stakes tables.


gl

reply

Bovinity- i thnk ur confused. i nvr folded the set. i called the all in bet and the st8 came. And on the Ak hand i mucked as soon as som1 bet the flop i dont mind laying down the hand, i hate that i got 6 callers.

Mr Whatever- unfortunatly the highest stakes game at this place is 2/5 and that game only goes like once a month( and the action is crazyer then the 1/2) so im stuck in 1/2. i see ur logic i guess juss dial it down cuz they wont lay down the draw anyway.

forsakenone- with all the collusion and poker bots online i will only play cash games live. and the live game is ushally sooo much easier to beat, till i found this place.

So after the replys and my constant pondering the most obvious solution wld b to play small ball with them most pots, but wait till i flop a monster to change gears cuz they will pay anyway. and stop expecting them to have knowledge of any skillfull poker or reading abilities. Also i forgot to mention that they allow a buyin of 400 in a 1/2 game. so after about 3 hrs of play ther will b 3 or 4 monster stacks and evry1 else average about 300-350 in play.

Thanks guys keep it coming, whats your opinion about big pairs preflop with these kind of players.

Were hands 1 and 3 at different stakes?

no they were both at the stupid big stack 1/2.

So why are you opening BTN to 6x BB and then only raising to 7BB in CO when there are 4 limpers in front of you?

i dnt thnk uve evr playd a live 1/2 game. the standard raise from the idiots is 10-20.

the $12 hand my intentions were to steal the blinds. i nvr wanted any action let alone a turn and a river.

the ak hand i used 3x the big blind plus 1 for evry limper and plus 1 incase the button wanted to call. so that 6+2+2+2+2+2=16.

i realy dnt understand wut ur tryn to say bout the raises. if ur sayn the amounts r wrong u need to attend a live 1/2 and record wut the average raise is and how many times u see a standard 3x bb raise and get back to me. and i raised 8x the bb

He means its inconsistent. Why are you using 3xbb +1bb per limper when the standard open is 5-10bb, it should be standard raise + more per limper. Using the 3x+1/limper, if you have 2 limpers you would raise to 5bb, but when you open raise its to 6bb? - doesn't make sense...and then its hardly surprising that you get a chain of callers when you raise 7bb more over limpers at a table where 5-10bb opens are standard.

k

ok that makes sense but i really wldnt like to b puting in 25-30 preflop juss to get som1 to fold, and if i get reraised ther goes 10%-15% of my stack.

really i guess without huge luck its kind of an unbeatable game. i noticed that its not jus me that cant beat this game. its evry1. they seem to draw so much that they juss pass the money back and forth and ther are very few winners through out the day and who evr happens to b up at the time the game ends is the winner. very rarly does som1 win 2 sessions in a row here.

D'wilius said:

He means its inconsistent. Why are you using 3xbb +1bb per limper when the standard open is 5-10bb, it should be standard raise + more per limper. Using the 3x+1/limper, if you have 2 limpers you would raise to 5bb, but when you open raise its to 6bb? - doesn't make sense...and then its hardly surprising that you get a chain of callers when you raise 7bb more over limpers at a table where 5-10bb opens are standard.

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Thank you for clearing it up, I don't think there's anything else I need to say.

OP you are just running bad.

if they are stations, then just make them pay when you have a hand.
hand 1- just ship.. he is calling anyway.
hand 2 - cooler.
hand 3 - i'd just make it 10 to go, let them all call. you've built a pot in case you hit it, and haven't spent too much if you miss. If you had AA there I'd make it 20 to go and hope some still call.

just got back from 3 days at foxwoods playing live 1-2. Live 1-2 players suck!

Basically, get your money in good and be happy you did. if they suck out they suckout. but you know you will beat that game. might be worth tightening up though since no one ever folds in that game. hit sets / 2 pr cheap and then make them pay.

Do not make it 10 to go on hand 3 if you like money

ok so results from my last session are alot better. i tried to play small ball for a bit but juss ended up playing super tight and was about a $50 winner for most of the night then late in the session picked up AA vs AK and got em all in in a big pot then flopd the K high nut flush vs jack high flush for another big pot. but for the most part didnt have to deal with the wild play cuz i folded evry hand for seemingly 4 hrs.

Running bad is a part of poker. Sounds like you may just now be experiencing it.

0965jaz said:

Hi, i have been playing poker in the chicago casinos since i was 16. i am very well rounded at all skills and all games. i ground out a nice profit at the 1/2 and 2/5 games and havent to work for the last 4 years. bout 6 months ago i was arrested and banned from all the casinos for the next year. Now i have to play at chicago charitble games, AKA home of the donkeys. aside from a few heater sessions were i caught evry card in the deck, i cannot beat the bad play consistantly. and when i say bad play i mean terrible. here are a cpl examples from $1/$2 NL

1. Folded to on the button i raise to $12 with JH,10H the BB calls and the flop comes Js 10d 2s he checks i bet 16 he flats, witch tells me almost 90% he is on a draw. a big hand shld always raise cuz of the drawing board. the turn is a blank and he checks again. i bet 75 to make sure he has no odds to call. he flats anyway. river is a spade he checks again and i shut it down. he flips over 8s 6s

2. a guy has been semi bluffing big bets with draws alnight. i flop middle set and check raise the flop, he ships. i kno that he has a draw, the problem is ther is no geting him off the hand now, he put all his chips in and WILL SEE 5 CARDS. what am i supposed to do fold my set.

3. Im in the cutoff and 4 ppl limp in front of me. I got AK suited. I raise to $16 and both the blinds and the 4 limpers all call. Flop comes evrythng but me.

Any1 hav any exp beating crazy play like this ill b glad to take som advise

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No offense but you don't sound like a very good player...

The situations you're describing are the exact kind of ones every decent poker player should want to be in.

If you keep getting your money in as a big favourite then you have already won.

The second hand strikes me as rediculous. Your basically saying that you were afraid to call his allin shove with middle set, when you know that he has a draw.... So basically your saying that you know you have the better hand but you don't know if you should call?!?!?!?

It all sounds ludicrous to me, and I'm having a very hard time believing that you were a winning player in the 1/2 and 2/5 games in the casino, but can't beat 1/2 in the so called "home of the donkeys".

If you don't like playing against terrible players, and if you're afraid to get your money in, when you "know" you have the better hand, then I really doubt you were ever a winning player at any level.

Dwil's excellent note about the betting aside, you may need to consider whether you are sufficiently bankrolled for these games. The situations you describe are so common as to be laughable. If you are not willing to make the correct play because you could lose, you may be playing scared.

The optimum mindset in poker is to be risk-neutral. You make the correct play, period. The results in that particular hand don't matter -- if your play is correct. (Boy, it would be nice to get there!) It's really hard to play that way if you are under-bankrolled. The results in a particular session do not matter either -- but you want to think about how you played to determine if you could have done better.

If you think you should win every hand you play, you are foolish. If you expect to win every session, you will be disappointed. But in the long run, if you play every hand correctly, you will be ahead. That's long run. As in 10k+ hands. Live, that's a long time. Poker is a game of slight edges.

As to playing with donks and fish -- that's a dream scenario for the properly-rolled disciplined smart player. It's very swingy, high variance, yes. But, on the whole, in the long run, the correct plays will pay off. Those calling stations, those chasers will pay you off more than you will pay them off. Your post about the good session where you played tight and got lucky with your good hands at the end is a case in point. Had you been playing with better players, you likely wouldn't have made so much on the good hands. And, against good players, folding for 4 hours would be just sad.

For a 1/2 NL game with a max buy-in of $200, you should have a bankroll of at least $4000. If you don't have that, you should reconsider online playing where the stakes are lower. Yes, there can be collusion, but not at every table of the hundreds available. Yes, there may be bots, but they are going to be playing properly. And the major sites -- pokerstars and FullTilt -- are more than willing to ban such players when they find them. If you are playing live because you can eat with your winnings that night, you really need to consider getting a job and playing on the side.

ok ill say this again. i was nvr considering folding a set. nvr. on a rainbow flop with only a st8 draw im nvr folding. i was simply stating that the problem was that he was playing a big pot no matter what i did.

and i thnk that u guys r prob micro stakes trny players cuz no legitament cash player wants to have all his chips in the middle evry time he plays a pot if he is he fav or not. thats like u online mainiacs who take race after race for all ur chips cuz u hav no idea how to actualy play poker or make a read or no when it is a good spot to bluff. juss randomly 3 bet because ther is money in the pot and ship it cuz u hav AK.

i hav nvr expected to win evry hand.

i am more than well funded to play a 1/2 game so thats no issue.

and obviosly making the right move and getting all my chips in when i got the best hand is not working and hasent been for months so i dnt want to hear anythng about the long run.

and any 1 of u who thnk ur ivey or sumthn callin me a bad player. if u evr find urself in chicago ill play u for wut evr stake u want as high as u can dream

also this post was about a startegy to beat this game not for u to take a shot at me cuz u thnk u kno somthng that u obviously do not. so unless u hav an idea to beat the game dont post here

0965jaz said:

ok ill say this again. i was nvr considering folding a set. nvr. on a rainbow flop with only a st8 draw im nvr folding. i was simply stating that the problem was that he was playing a big pot no matter what i did.

And I'm simply stating that that is not a problem...


and i thnk that u guys r prob micro stakes trny players cuz no legitament cash player wants to have all his chips in the middle evry time he plays a pot if he is he fav or not. thats like u online mainiacs who take race after race for all ur chips cuz u hav no idea how to actualy play poker or make a read or no when it is a good spot to bluff. juss randomly 3 bet because ther is money in the pot and ship it cuz u hav AK.

Any cash player worth anything wants to get his chips in the middle if he thinks hes a big favorite. In fact, I would go so far as to say, that that is what poker is all about; getting your money in as favorite consistently, thus maximizing your profit over the longrun. Otherwise known as "making the right decisions".

i hav nvr expected to win evry hand.

i am more than well funded to play a 1/2 game so thats no issue.
and obviosly making the right move and getting all my chips in when i got the best hand is not working and hasent been for months so i dnt want to hear anythng about the long run.
Its really hard to take you seriously at this point...

and any 1 of u who thnk ur ivey or sumthn callin me a bad player. if u evr find urself in chicago ill play u for wut evr stake u want as high as u can dream

also this post was about a startegy to beat this game not for u to take a shot at me cuz u thnk u kno somthng that u obviously do not. so unless u hav an idea to beat the game dont post here

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Im not quite familiar with "startegy" so I apologize...


Your post is full of absolute nonsense... I don't reply to threads to bash people, I genuinely try to help if I think Im able. But your post is ridiculous.
No one here is arrogant enough to claim they are world class players(except maybe you), we are all on a learning curve and it is quite apparent that you have no interest in learning.

I mean seriously, you're basically crying about people calling you with worst hands (if only we all had such worries). I think you must have gargantuan, Niagra Falls type leaks in your game if you can't make a profit playing against the people you describe. Thinking, that playing against a higher class of opposition is the answer, (ones who might "respect your moves") is a common fallacy. In fact you would know that if you had read any poker book, ever (It genuinely seems to be in the first chapter of every book I've ever read on the subject).


PS: You also appear to be either thirteen, illiterate, or dyslexic... if its one of the latter I apologize , but it makes your nonsensical ramblings that much harder to decipher.

ok. i am dlxic. thts y i try to abbrv evrytng.

to get ths back were i wnt it.
in a perfct world were evry1 has the same amount of chips i wld b winning in this game, cuz yes the draws only hit a third of the time but the ppl that i bust seem 2 alwys have only 50-100 on the tbl and when ther r 4 players that have bigger stacks than me that r plyng ths way it seems like i cnt beat them all with out losing a monster pot.
so without any other input do u c a way 2 avoid playn a huge pot aftr huge pot.
i want to keep pots small to see a rvr b4 jackin it up but that gos agnst evrytng i kno n evrytng u r sayin but i gota stop the bleeding

0965jaz said:

so without any other input do u c a way 2 avoid playn a huge pot aftr huge pot.
i want to keep pots small to see a rvr b4 jackin it up but that gos agnst evrytng i kno n evrytng u r sayin but i gota stop the bleeding

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If you have to stop the bleeding.. then how are you properly rolled? does not compute.

I personally want to play monster pots every time when i have an edge all day every day, so I am baffled here. And the long run is YEARS for live play, not months.