Hypothetical situation

this was posted on another forum but I thought it would be an interesting question to put out there...

Middle of big NL tournament. Tough opponents. You have a bit less than average chips. $40,000. Blinds 1K and 2K. $300 ante. Nine handed. You are dealt two tens under the gun. What's your play? (Also, if you don't move in or fold, how do you respond to a raise?)

I raise 3 to 5 times the BB, and if i get reraised i muck 'em. If not, i play what the flop brings. If there are 2+ paint cards, i'll check to the caller. If there are 1 or fewer, then i'd push.
The way i play tournaments, the players at my table would know that i'd have to have a very powerful hand to raise with UTG, so if i get reraised i know that they will definitely be ahead of me. Simple as that.

Dingodaddy23 said:

(Also, if you don't move in or fold, how do you respond to a raise?)

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What do you mean by "if I don't move in or fold" - If i were to limp?
I'd never limp with TT UTG in a tournament.

9/10 times I would go all in if I have less than average chip stack with the blinds increasing. At this level, you can't afford to waste the chips. Chances are, you aren't going to get any callers. If you get a caller, you are still in good shape because you have an already made hand pre flop. You could end up losing the hand to an overpair or whatever, but this would be a good time in the tournament either improve your standing for later down the road, or cut your losses and call it a day.

the poster just assumed that nobody on the forum would limp.

also... i dont think a limp ---> re-raise would be a horrible play here depending your table image. Alot of players would put you on aces or kings.

The reason I posted the question is because I myself can't really come up with a solid answer in my mind. I mean, if i raise 3-5x BB and someone comes over the top, I'm out a quarter of my stack. I dont think a raise-fold is the right play there. I don't like an open push either because you're only gonna get called by a hand that beats you, or maybe a big stack with AK, then you're in a race for all your chips. I'd almost lean towards an open-fold and wait for a better start, but im not really sure thats the right play either. It's a really tough situation

well the way i see it, a losing player would fold here. If you're too scared to play a pair of tens from up front, then you're not goint to be a winning tournament player. You have to take those risks.
I like the idea of pushing, because you're getting close to shortstacked (20BBs and antes getting big) aswell as the fact that players will probably put you on a bigger hand than TT, so you'd most probably be getting the 5700 in blinds in antes without contest. Noones calling you with AT or KQ.
Though you also have a good point on pushing, Dingo - nobody's going to call you with anything other than a hand that will be ahead of you, or AK or possibly AQ. I still like a push though, because you HAVE to take risks like this to win tournaments. You don't win tournaments by playing super-tight when it's midway through.

i agree you dont take risks when you're midway through, but think about, even if you do raise 3-5x and see a flop, you're OOP. I mean that doesnt matter if you're pushing the flop regardless, and I think a check on ANY flop is BAD idea, because a good player WILL put you to the test with any 2 cards, I mean they will see you are basically pot committed. I think if you're gonna play the hand you have to push any flop regardless.

oops i meant "i agree you DO have to take risks to win a tournament"

The way I see it, you're not dropping the hand pre flop, and by the time you triple the blind you are crippling your stack if the board is JKA. That is why I would push all in on this one. If you get called, then you are likely SOL, but you still stand a solid chance. But chances are you will steal the blinds because a lot of players get tight at this point to preserve their chip stack for the "money rounds". My theory at this point in tournaments is this. You lose every hand you don't commit your chips to.

I'd go all in PF. You might get called by a big stack and hope to win a race, but thats better than getting blinded out and trying to hang on for the money.

Limping is completely out of the question. 10's is not a good multi way hand unless you hit the set. You need to reduce the hand to heads up for the best chance at winning.

Fold UTG.
You are only getting action from something that has you beaten.
Think about it. What will call your raise?

You said decent opponents.
Therefore, if you raise, A-Q is out, and any pair under jacks is out too.
You might get a call out of A-K. But I doubt it.
You are UTG. and this is a marginal hand. Clear fold.

/hide behind the noob shield

I disagree with Fish. The blinds and ante are 5700 each trip around the table. Before that 40k in chips gets eaten by blinds you need to take a shot while you could still dbl up and get back in the game. You are taking a big chance that you'll get a better hand than pkt 10's in the next 20 or so hands.

i would limp if it's the part of the tourney where the short stacks are all-inning every other hand, and call a shortstack all in but fold to any other raise.

and no, he's not necessarily waiting for a better hand, he's waiting for position

joosebuck said:

i would limp if it's the part of the tourney where the short stacks are all-inning every other hand, and call a shortstack all in but fold to any other raise.

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I like this answer. For me 10 10 is a small pair therefore it is a limping hand. We are still almost average stack so I don't see the urgency in getting our chips in just yet. OOP and not a great hand, limp and hope to see the flop cheap, otherwise fold.

There are lots of other factors that could play into this like if the table ever sees a flop without a raise. If not I would have to change my answer.

joosebuck said:

and no, he's not necessarily waiting for a better hand, he's waiting for position

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Right.

This is a seriously tough hand to play but let me ask you guys a questions

if you are willing to muck 1010, I assume you are also willing to much AK, AQ, AJ, A10, and any pair under 1010 to any raise? Which basically means unless you get AA, KK, QQ or JJ in an early position, you will muck everything else? I dont see how this is a good tournament strategy

1010 is a premium hand, make no mistake. You are ahead against any drawing hand and should play the hand aggressively. a standard 4 x BB raise doesnt necesarrily leave you pot committed if a passive player pushed his chips in.

I dont think limping is a good idea. Sure, it might save you some chips. But if you get 4 limpers in with you and the board shows a whole bunch of undercards, you will be pushing that extra 6,000 out anyway, and you will not have a clue where you stand in the hand

Mu advice is push out your 4 x BB raise and dont be fazed by a call. Play it aggressively, especially if you feel you are ahead

It all depends on who the big stack is, how he plays, where he is in position to me etc. I'd make a strong case for a 2.5-4x BB raise here.


Although, A limp/reraise to all in here is the best play IMO. Yes, you take a risk that it will just be called around and you have 5 opponents to your medium pair, but you're into the place that you're getting raises to steal the blinds. You're likely going to isolate one person, usually with a hand like QKo or maybe AxSuited making a semi - blind steal with a decent hand. There is no way they can call the limp/reraise and they will fold. And if they do call, you're almost surely in the better half of the coin flip.