How would you fold this?

Ok let's say the villian can be a LAG and TAG because am on this situation a lot of time with both type of players.


Im at MP Holding AKs at 6max raises 3bb. CO calls.

Fold came

A 6 8 rainbow flop.

Oh yea I flopped top pair with top kicker.

I raise 2/3 of the pot. The villian 3bets me.

What should I do? They always do this with set. How can I fold this? Should I? When?

Both type of players did this to me. A TAG and LAG before. I never fold both hands. And ends up losing huge pot.

I need advice on how to fold this type of hand. Any advice would be appreciated.

If your read/instinct is that they have the set, fold it. No reason to waste any more money in the pot. It's tough but this will lose you a lot of hands and put you on tilt (trust me). I would fold it, take that and develop a better read on the person, and move on, little harm done. Now if they had been doing that repetitavely I would have either called or shoved. But you said both times they had it, so good fold IMO.

Thank you for the advice. I probably need to have more reading on my opponent.

You're misusing terms such as "bet" "raise" "3 bet" etc and it's confusing me slightly. Im assuming you mean that you opened 3x BB and then bet 2/3 the pot and villain raised you? If this is incorrect then ignore the rest of this response.

How Deep are you? Standard 100 BBs deep? Shorter? Deeper?

This is important, bc with some stack sizes not stacking off would be beyond awful and with others stacking off would be horrible.

Assuming 100 BBs deep

How have opponents been playing AT AJ AQ type hands against your opens? 3 betting pre? Flatting?. What about post flop? Flatting a CB or raising?

If you're noticing villains are mostly calling with AJ AQ a CBet (often the case) then a raise generally means a hand that can beat top pair (or a steal). Of course we can't just go around opening then folding TPTK every time we're raised or we'd get completely walked over.... so how can we adjust?

- If you are in position instead of auto betting mix in some check behinds on Ace high flops that aren't very wet (draw heavy). This adds some deception to your hand, allows two streets of value out of AJ type hands that might fold to a second shell if you have a tight image and bet the flop, and pot controls the times that you have been outflopped. It of course also allows your oppenet to bluff into you on the later streets.

- Don't allow your opponent to play perfectly. This means if you do bet AK on an A 8 6 rainbow board and are raised, so not 3 bet shove here because you will only be called when you're beat and rarely if ever when you are ahead (unless you are playing with bad players who routinely stack off with AT-AQ in spots similiar to this, and if that is the case then disregard). Simply call the raise...

- Most tight players will not go apeshit with TP3K/similiar against a PFR, so a lot of the times even if they raise, they often slow down on the turn unless they can beat one pair. If you don't have reason to suspect otherwise (they've been playing overly aggressive, overvaluing hands, think they can run you over, have raised PFRs and fired 2nd shells several times etc), assume that they mean what their bet is saying they do. One pair is no good, and release.

It was on 5NL we're both on 200BB more or less.

Sir what does this mean?

"
This is important, bc with some stack sizes not stacking off would be beyond awful and with others stacking off would be horrible. "

I cant seem to understand this one.



And this could be my problem.

If you're noticing villains are mostly calling with AJ AQ a CBet (often the case) then a raise generally means a hand that can beat top pair (or a steal)

I cant seem to notice alot with players since im playing multitable. Maybe I should try to lessen my tables and and be more observant.

alvinpe said:

Sir what does this mean?

"
This is important, bc with some stack sizes not stacking off would be beyond awful and with others stacking off would be horrible. "

I cant seem to understand this one.

Click to expand...

If we are 20 BBs deep and raised 3x pre then bet 4BB post, folding for an additional 13 BBs would be idiotic. It's an insta call

If we are 300 BBs deep and raised it 3x pre then bet 4x on the flop and decided we were going to put our remaining 295 BBs in the middle no matter what it would likewise be just as dumb. Stacking off this many chips with TPTK is ridiculous


You say you were 200 BBs deep. So there has to be action that you aren't telling us about. If you raised 3x pre then bet 4x on the flop how are suddenly 200 BBs in the middle?

Thank you for explaining sir Zybomb.


No there's no 200BB pot. As i remember but I think there's like 120BB or such.
Maybe I just shouldnt stack too much on a TPTK.

Sir Zybomb, Can you teach me how to do pot control?

It's dang hard to fold Top pair/top kicker (TPTK). If you see these hands through with your AK, nobody is gonna laugh at you.

To me, if that hand loses, so be it. I am not going to imagine a set or a 2-pair out there -- although both happen.

But you do need to know your opponent(s). The LAG over there may well have 2 pair. The rock may well have a set. The maniac, for that matter, could have you beat.

Bottom line, IMO, do you want to keep your chips in your stack, or do you want to go for a big hand? Do you want to take a risk, right now?

Here's another way to think about this situation - for the Villain you're playing against, what's he shown down before when he raises a cbet?

With some villains, TPTK is a re-raise situation - when Villain is capable of raising a cbet with AQ or worse (these tend to be aggressive villains - note also that your example allows the possibility of a straight draw, and some Villains are capable of raising with the draw as well).

With other villains, there's no way they're raising unless they have a better hand than TPTK (these tend to be more passive, or at least less aggressive, villains) - in that case, TPTK is a snap fold.

Figuring out who is who is the tough part.

Depends on stack size, how LAG/TAG, other stuff too.

If you're deeper, getting in with this spot is -EV, but if you're short it's great. If villain is a crazy spew-tard, then maybe getting in with AK is fine, but don't shove on him, cuz then he has no FE, and is only getting in with hands that beat you, AK himself, maybe MAYBE AQ if he's real bad.

Gotta give him a chance to try and bluff you off it, then you can pop him. But in general, this is not a good spot to stack off. Villain likely puts you on an ace, so why is he stacking if he can't beat that?

When you play/raise with your AK, what flop are you hoping for? I'll answer--- this one! A and rags. It's a great flop for you.

Now consider your own table image. If other players had been paying attention, have you only shown down with big hands? Have you been caught raising with mediocre hands? Is there any possibility that the other guy is thinking you are simply c-betting? How easily have you been folding to pressure? Oh, right-- you've been multi-tabling and may not remember what this table thinks of you. And you don't know about the other guy. He could be thinking anything. He could have anything. He may have notes on you, while you don't have a clue about him.

I would not be so quick to assume he has you beat. This is the sort of flop I want with AK, and I would be likely to play it all the way. If, by some chance, he (as in this player in particular, at this time) has a set or 2 pair, so be it. Most of the time, he will not. (The times he does will sting. It is important to learn how to deal with that. But also important is not folding your big hands. Poker is a game of long-run slight edges, and you are giving up your profitable edges if you waste a good hand.)