How to work A-K-Q-J/10

irishlatent

irishlatent

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OK,

So I have been wondering, in what situation would you play a court card paired with a 10, i.e A-K-Q-J/10

I understand that ten is not the *best* kicker in the world, and barring straight possibilities with J10, I usually only limp in with them in middle/late position to maybe catch some flop action, however in my heart I do not think this is a good strategy, so any input would be great. :icon_sant
 
BelgoSuisse

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Stop limping. Raise or fold depending on the situation.

That's also valid for every other two cards you can have, btw. Raising or folding is nearly always much better than limping.
 
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Syfted

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I always thought this was good advice. Opinions?

Raise AT if you will continuation bet should you flop your Ace. If you intend to check the flop, fold.

The only exceptions would be checking to really tight limping players, whom you would assume your kicker was no good against.
 
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pokermatch

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They would be good limping hands, but not very good raising hands. If youhappen to get T J suited, then you have a pritty good hand to call a goodraise with, but Ten Ace for example is a very dangerous hand for you, unlessthe biggest card on the board is T, your taking a big risk by moving forward.I would definitly think twice before calling raises with such hands.
 
BelgoSuisse

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pokermatch said:
They would be good limping hands, but not very good raising hands.
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That is a major flaw in the way you play poker. Seriously. Raising good hands and limping medium ones is so exploitable you're just drooling money to the good players are your table when you do that.
 
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Qutsemnie

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Well my theory on how to bet preflop at micro is to buck the pro-Ferguson and others, the thing is you should not be able to limp in for 1BB at a 9 way or 6 way table, but time and time again in micro people let you do it. So instead of having the 3BB or fold system, I divide my fold catagory into 1BB or fold. So I have three bets preflop: 3BB (from fergusons good hand list depending on position), 1BB (that would have been a fold if the table is letting me), and 0BB I fold...

But all you learn from the 1BB is that its a hand I would have folded but for some reason you guys are letting me get to a flop with them.... It really doesn't detract from how obstuficated my 3BB hands are because the 1BB hands were never in them. And whats cool bout it is people that think they are stronger than they are will read what you say and take it as variable pricing on the 3BB hands.

As for this hand, my strat is by position. For AT its a 1BB hand out of position, its a 3BB hand inposition if nobody has 3BBd yet. Because its a dominatable hand. But good luck getting a read on that "variable betting". Specially when the variable betting is over the same hands depending on position -=0.

Also by putting some high cards into 1BB depending on position, it can make it really hard for a micro table to get a sense of you. It takes a pretty good player to put all that together. But here is the rub: a pretty good player isn't in preflop for 1BB you just told them not to =)~ So they are either playing like you in which case how can your strategy be wrong, or they arn't in your hand because they arn't in hands for less than 3BB. Kind of a catch 22 there.

In the end, I think the reason this adjustment is under the pro-advice radar, is that good tables don't let anyone in to the flop for 1bb. Tossing your 1bb out there out of position just gets it raised to 3BB most of the time, and so its a loss to you.
 
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SlipperyPete

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BelgoSuisse said:
That is a major flaw in the way you play poker. Seriously. Raising good hands and limping medium ones is so exploitable you're just drooling money to the good players are your table when you do that.
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Agreed. I used to limp a lot, and more recently have changed that leak in my game and it has made a big difference. By raising with medium hands your still getting people with worse hands to fold that could have drawn out on you had you not raised. Also you'll be able to pick up a lot of small pots pre-flop without contest to pad your stack. Lastly if you do hit hard on the flop you're in good shape to take down a nice pot.
 
cardplayer52

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Qutsemnie said:
Well my theory on how to bet preflop at micro is to buck the pro-Ferguson and others, the thing is you should not be able to limp in for 1BB at a 9 way or 6 way table, but time and time again in micro people let you do it. So instead of having the 3BB or fold system, I divide my fold catagory into 1BB or fold. So I have three bets preflop: 3BB (from fergusons good hand list depending on position), 1BB (that would have been a fold if the table is letting me), and 0BB I fold...

But all you learn from the 1BB is that its a hand I would have folded but for some reason you guys are letting me get to a flop with them.... It really doesn't detract from how obstuficated my 3BB hands are because the 1BB hands were never in them. And whats cool bout it is people that think they are stronger than they are will read what you say and take it as variable pricing on the 3BB hands.

As for this hand, my strat is by position. For AT its a 1BB hand out of position, its a 3BB hand inposition if nobody has 3BBd yet. Because its a dominatable hand. But good luck getting a read on that "variable betting". Specially when the variable betting is over the same hands depending on position -=0.

Also by putting some high cards into 1BB depending on position, it can make it really hard for a micro table to get a sense of you. It takes a pretty good player to put all that together. But here is the rub: a pretty good player isn't in preflop for 1BB you just told them not to =)~ So they are either playing like you in which case how can your strategy be wrong, or they arn't in your hand because they arn't in hands for less than 3BB. Kind of a catch 22 there.

In the end, I think the reason this adjustment is under the pro-advice radar, is that good tables don't let anyone in to the flop for 1bb. Tossing your 1bb out there out of position just gets it raised to 3BB most of the time, and so its a loss to you.
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there are so many reasons to raise. the main reason chris ferguson says always open raise is if you can play the hand profitably a raise would be even more profitable. if you are out of position you raise stronger hands like aces or kings? then limp with weaker ones? and if your at a table that will let you limp w/AT you also may just be able to pick up the blinds without a flop if you raise. but if you know you will be out of position throw away AT. if you limp w/it then when the flop comes you have no idea what type of hands your up against. had you raised you sometime get a better idea of the hands your opponants could have. stick w/the pro's advice also theres some great advice and guides here for micros. check them out.
 
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The Muppetteer

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If I have A-K-Q-J/10 in early position I will generally throw it way but if I am in middle to late position I will raise with it 3x the blind but I will never limp with it unless I am in the blinds and it is just the BB and SB and I am trying to trap with it.

If there has been a raise before me depending on who it is I will more often than not throw the hand away.

The Muppetteer
 
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mange

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Jack/Ten

There are several situtions where I would play JT.

As a rule, it may be better to fold unless they are suited. And, suited gives you the 23rd ranking on the EV Scale. So, immagine what unsuited is.

But, if in late position, and the blinds are low. And, you have a decent stack, I would make a small call hoping to hit something. But, down side of that is, you may hit just enought to get into trouble.

So, when you limp in (late position) Since you have to fold on a raise, have a mindset that this is a scouting expedition, and be prepaired to fold at the first sign of trouble.

Thats just me. Just many situations to make that call.

In taking my advise, remember I dont win very often. haha

Good luck, that is the way to improve your game. Throw out thoses hands and get oppinions. It can only help improve.

mange
 
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x4n4x

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BelgoSuisse said:
That is a major flaw in the way you play poker. Seriously. Raising good hands and limping medium ones is so exploitable you're just drooling money to the good players are your table when you do that.
Click to expand...

A good player will make use of all hands. Poker isnt about just playing by a strict set of rules. There is an entropy about it, and so there should be some infused with your game.
 
BelgoSuisse

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x4n4x said:
A good player will make use of all hands. Poker isnt about just playing by a strict set of rules. There is an entropy about it, and so there should be some infused with your game.
Click to expand...

wat? :eek:
 
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