How to play profitably at a loose table?

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DottMySaviour

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Today, I just tried playing No Limit Hold'em for real money at my friend's house. This is also my first time playing any form of poker. I've been studying the game for quite a long time before playing for real money.

The game was 8 players, $0.20/$0.40 blinds and everyone bought in for $20 (50 big blinds). I managed to win exactly $27 (profit) at the end of the session. But, I felt that I still played poorly despite playing against players I think are fishes.

So, the table was very loose-passive especially pre-flop.

Pre-flop
Often there will be 5 players seeing the flop. If I raise pre-flop even on the button with a reasonable hand, those that already limped almost always called my raise. My raise was always 3x the big blind +1 for each limper. So, on average if I raised pre-flop, 3 players including me will see the flop.

Flop
Sometimes, they lead out on the flop although I was the aggressor. If I totally missed, I would just fold which I'm not sure when I should flop and when I shouldn't. I just feel like they can often be bluffing. If I try to do a c-bet when I miss, I often get called and just give up on the turn unless I'm drawing to something. hands often go to the showdown as everyone just doesn't believe everyone when someone bets the river.

Here's what I thought after the session.
  1. I probably should never raise pre-flop unless I have a strong pocket pair such as AA, KK, QQ as these hands are very likely to stay as the best hand on the flop. If I have other hands that I want to see a flop with, I should just call. However, if I play like this, the others would know that when I raise pre-flop, it means I have strong pocket pairs.
  2. I should never bluff.

So, what is the optimal way to play at this kind of tables? This seems like loose-passive pre-flop but loose-aggressive post-flop table.

Side Question: Are the situations the same when it's 9-handed folded to the button versus 6-handed folded to the button? In 9-handed, it would seem that the blinds are more likely to have something, but maths doesn't seem to agree.
 
TimovieMan

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Raise preflop with the better hands, but raise more than 3xBB, make it 5-6x instead to actually limit the field.
Don't c-bet into a field unless you hit, and don't bluff.
 
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DottMySaviour

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Raise preflop with the better hands, but raise more than 3xBB, make it 5-6x instead to actually limit the field.
Don't c-bet into a field unless you hit, and don't bluff.

My bottom pre-flop raising range on the button includes 96s, can I still play hands like this and do a 5-6x BB raise?
 
TimovieMan

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If it gets folded to you on the button, then that table is not as loose as you describe. ;)

Learn the value of limping small pocket pairs from early position, and the value of overlimping speculative hands like 96s OTB.
 
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I've played games like this a lot and here's my strategy for punishing the fish:

Make bigger raises preflop. Truly punish people by raising to 5x + x per limper. So if you're on the button with KQ and there are 4 limpers for 1x each, you should now raise to 9x.

Play ultra tight preflop. Anything worse than AJ or KQ is a fold. Remember that you're only playing 50bb deep, so don't overvalue speculative hands like QTs and QJs that play much better in MW pots with deep stacks and high SPR's.

Recognise and accept that these aren't thinking players. Your logic of "I'm scared to fold 90% of hands and then raise 10% because it will make my range too readable" is the kind of logic you'd use against thinking players. These players are only playing their own hole cards. They're fish. Why else are they playing with a VPIP/PFR of 80/5? You'll go very far in these kind of games if you just play basic ABC poker and try not to worry about being too readable or too exploitable, because the players you're playing against aren't good enough to exploit an ABC poker strategy.

As for bluffing, only Cbet the flop and then give up. These players probably aren't "lookup artists" and they're probably not going to exploit you for doing this, so you don't need to worry about barreling turns and rivers. If you made a large raise size preflop (5x + x per limper), then you should get HU pots a lot which are perfect for this strategy.

Bet sizes: try to keep all your bets around 70-80% pot. Don't fall into the habit of betting $5 on the flop, $10 on the turn and $15 on the river. Your bet sizes should go up much more significantly each street, like $5 on the flop, $13 on the turn and $33 on the river, so that you can extract maximum value.

Good luck and have fun at these games!
 
TheBigFinn

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The first thing to decide is what the objective is. You are "at a friend's house." If it is a social game I won't let my desire to maximize profit interfere with the social aspects.

That said, pre flop I would.

1. Raise Preflop from any position with the AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AK and AJ.
2. Limp the rest of the pairs and suited connectors down to 65.

On the flop, I would
1. Bet (or call) 2/3s pot on any top pair, overpair, 3 of a kind, straight or flush or better.
2. 2/3s pot CB any 4 flush, 4 straight, 2 overs, or second pair if checked to
3. Call any 4 flush or 4 straight to a reasonable raise and especially to a raise call.
4. Check fold the rest

On the turn, I would
1. Bet half pot (Call) on any top pair, over pair, 3 of a kind, straight or flush or better.
2. Half pot CB any 4 flush, 4 straight, or second pair if checked to.
3. Check fold the rest

On the river, I would
1. Reraise or bet 3 of a kind, straight or flush or better.
2. Call top pair top kicker or over pair.

You should through in a bluff every now and again (twice and hour?) to weakness from a single player and fold to aggression from an other wise passive player.

In a loose, passive, friendly game, I think you'll win enough and keep your friends.
 
mar_dragan

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Today, I just tried playing No Limit Hold'em for real money at my friend's house. This is also my first time playing any form of poker. I've been studying the game for quite a long time before playing for real money.

The game was 8 players, $0.20/$0.40 blinds and everyone bought in for $20 (50 big blinds). I managed to win exactly $27 (profit) at the end of the session. But, I felt that I still played poorly despite playing against players I think are fishes.

So, the table was very loose-passive especially pre-flop.

Pre-flop
Often there will be 5 players seeing the flop. If I raise pre-flop even on the button with a reasonable hand, those that already limped almost always called my raise. My raise was always 3x the big blind +1 for each limper. So, on average if I raised pre-flop, 3 players including me will see the flop.

Flop
Sometimes, they lead out on the flop although I was the aggressor. If I totally missed, I would just fold which I'm not sure when I should flop and when I shouldn't. I just feel like they can often be bluffing. If I try to do a c-bet when I miss, I often get called and just give up on the turn unless I'm drawing to something. Hands often go to the showdown as everyone just doesn't believe everyone when someone bets the river.

Here's what I thought after the session.
  1. I probably should never raise pre-flop unless I have a strong pocket pair such as AA, KK, QQ as these hands are very likely to stay as the best hand on the flop. If I have other hands that I want to see a flop with, I should just call. However, if I play like this, the others would know that when I raise pre-flop, it means I have strong pocket pairs.
  2. I should never bluff.

So, what is the optimal way to play at this kind of tables? This seems like loose-passive pre-flop but loose-aggressive post-flop table.

Side Question: Are the situations the same when it's 9-handed folded to the button versus 6-handed folded to the button? In 9-handed, it would seem that the blinds are more likely to have something, but maths doesn't seem to agree.

Wait good cards,raise preflop on good cards,dont bluff and relax.
 
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beckyg89

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Prefllop raising

So I think there are lots of things you can do to take advantage of this table but I'll mention one thing. You mentioned you think you should only be opening a very tight range. I think because you were playing against huge calling stations its good to have a tight opening range as you can be confident youll be ahead however in can be alot wider that QQ+! at such a table I would be happy opening with QJ+ and expect to be a head a huge amount of the time as i'll be getting called by alot of worse Kx, Qx, Jx. Then when you it the flop you feel very confident getting 2 streets of value with only top pair.
 
arty220

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You need to play more tight and aggressive. Preflop raises in EP and MP 4bb (+1 per limper), in LP 3bb (+1 per limper). Raises with premium hands: TT,JJ = 4bb, QQ,KK = 5bb, AA=6bb. Dont bluff and stonily value bet.

Sorry for my bad english.
 
Pauliefromgoodfellas

Pauliefromgoodfellas

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Today, I just tried playing No Limit Hold'em for real money at my friend's house. This is also my first time playing any form of poker. I've been studying the game for quite a long time before playing for real money.

The game was 8 players, $0.20/$0.40 blinds and everyone bought in for $20 (50 big blinds). I managed to win exactly $27 (profit) at the end of the session. But, I felt that I still played poorly despite playing against players I think are fishes.

So, the table was very loose-passive especially pre-flop.

Pre-flop
Often there will be 5 players seeing the flop. If I raise pre-flop even on the button with a reasonable hand, those that already limped almost always called my raise. My raise was always 3x the big blind +1 for each limper. So, on average if I raised pre-flop, 3 players including me will see the flop.

Flop
Sometimes, they lead out on the flop although I was the aggressor. If I totally missed, I would just fold which I'm not sure when I should flop and when I shouldn't. I just feel like they can often be bluffing. If I try to do a c-bet when I miss, I often get called and just give up on the turn unless I'm drawing to something. Hands often go to the showdown as everyone just doesn't believe everyone when someone bets the river.

Here's what I thought after the session.
  1. I probably should never raise pre-flop unless I have a strong pocket pair such as AA, KK, QQ as these hands are very likely to stay as the best hand on the flop. If I have other hands that I want to see a flop with, I should just call. However, if I play like this, the others would know that when I raise pre-flop, it means I have strong pocket pairs.
  2. I should never bluff.

So, what is the optimal way to play at this kind of tables? This seems like loose-passive pre-flop but loose-aggressive post-flop table.

Side Question: Are the situations the same when it's 9-handed folded to the button versus 6-handed folded to the button? In 9-handed, it would seem that the blinds are more likely to have something, but maths doesn't seem to agree.
Not raising pre with aks is just silly talk. You are right to play tight against stations. TAG is by far the best strategy for any novice to intermediate player in a normal setting. When you become an advanced player or find yourself facing villans who are nits you can begin to play LAG
 
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paulsmall007

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Tag is the way to go, the fish are calling wi any ace or any decent King. So don't go playing junk trying to be sneaky. There is nothing sneaky going on in there abc poker okay. So don't overthink yours
 
Omahahahaha

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Loose passive players are very easy to play against. You bet somewhat aggressively for value against them and only bluff when it is heads up and you are both likely to be very weak. Bet marginal hands when in position and generally just fold if they raise you. It is facile to say you should only raise pre with nutted hands at the table you have described. Precisely what hands you should open or iso depend primarily on your position but also the exact profile of the players at the table. In general you do need a stronger hand to iso raise a number of limpers than you need to simply open.
 
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PKRNRS

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Today, I just tried playing No Limit Hold'em for real money at my friend's house. This is also my first time playing any form of poker. I've been studying the game for quite a long time before playing for real money.

The game was 8 players, $0.20/$0.40 blinds and everyone bought in for $20 (50 big blinds). I managed to win exactly $27 (profit) at the end of the session. But, I felt that I still played poorly despite playing against players I think are fishes.

So, the table was very loose-passive especially pre-flop.

Pre-flop
Often there will be 5 players seeing the flop. If I raise pre-flop even on the button with a reasonable hand, those that already limped almost always called my raise. My raise was always 3x the big blind +1 for each limper. So, on average if I raised pre-flop, 3 players including me will see the flop.

Flop
Sometimes, they lead out on the flop although I was the aggressor. If I totally missed, I would just fold which I'm not sure when I should flop and when I shouldn't. I just feel like they can often be bluffing. If I try to do a c-bet when I miss, I often get called and just give up on the turn unless I'm drawing to something. Hands often go to the showdown as everyone just doesn't believe everyone when someone bets the river.

Here's what I thought after the session.
  1. I probably should never raise pre-flop unless I have a strong pocket pair such as AA, KK, QQ as these hands are very likely to stay as the best hand on the flop. If I have other hands that I want to see a flop with, I should just call. However, if I play like this, the others would know that when I raise pre-flop, it means I have strong pocket pairs.
  2. I should never bluff.
So, what is the optimal way to play at this kind of tables? This seems like loose-passive pre-flop but loose-aggressive post-flop table.

Side Question: Are the situations the same when it's 9-handed folded to the button versus 6-handed folded to the button? In 9-handed, it would seem that the blinds are more likely to have something, but maths doesn't seem to agree.

You're a big fish playing in a little fish pond. You think you have a handle on the game with all the information you have read and studied. You're lacking key components in your game. Number one is experience. You said you never played before today for real money. Without testing all you knowledge you're always just a student. Secondly you haven't learned a very key concept: Adjust your game.
You stated you won $27 dollars profit. Is this your $20 buy-in included or did you walk away with $47? If you won $7 on a .20/.40 game then you did good. If you won $27 on top of your $20 then you crushed it. Either way you walk away with a profit.
You are playing your poker game like your opponents have a clue about poker. Your opponents may have a basic understanding of poker but they aren't playing anything other than the two cards in their hand. You may actually have to "dumb-down" your play. I won't go into detail about adjusting your game, you'll learn through experience, but I will tell you that raises shouldn't be meant to thin the players in the pot. You should be embracing the fact that so many people are willing to enter the pot. Also you should never be bluffing. That is all.
 
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pietpikel

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Today, I just tried playing No Limit Hold'em for real money at my friend's house. This is also my first time playing any form of poker. I've been studying the game for quite a long time before playing for real money.

The game was 8 players, $0.20/$0.40 blinds and everyone bought in for $20 (50 big blinds). I managed to win exactly $27 (profit) at the end of the session. But, I felt that I still played poorly despite playing against players I think are fishes.

So, the table was very loose-passive especially pre-flop.

Pre-flop
Often there will be 5 players seeing the flop. If I raise pre-flop even on the button with a reasonable hand, those that already limped almost always called my raise. My raise was always 3x the big blind +1 for each limper. So, on average if I raised pre-flop, 3 players including me will see the flop.

Flop
Sometimes, they lead out on the flop although I was the aggressor. If I totally missed, I would just fold which I'm not sure when I should flop and when I shouldn't. I just feel like they can often be bluffing. If I try to do a c-bet when I miss, I often get called and just give up on the turn unless I'm drawing to something. Hands often go to the showdown as everyone just doesn't believe everyone when someone bets the river.

Here's what I thought after the session.
  1. I probably should never raise pre-flop unless I have a strong pocket pair such as AA, KK, QQ as these hands are very likely to stay as the best hand on the flop. If I have other hands that I want to see a flop with, I should just call. However, if I play like this, the others would know that when I raise pre-flop, it means I have strong pocket pairs.
  2. I should never bluff.

So, what is the optimal way to play at this kind of tables? This seems like loose-passive pre-flop but loose-aggressive post-flop table.

Side Question: Are the situations the same when it's 9-handed folded to the button versus 6-handed folded to the button? In 9-handed, it would seem that the blinds are more likely to have something, but maths doesn't seem to agree.
In a loose game you have to resist the temptation to join in. Keep your discipline, and wait for bigger hands. When you enter a pot make it a big raise that scares off most of the fish. This will change depending on how loose the game is. You have to adjust this to get yourself no more than 2 callers.

Also understand that if you have a calling station on your left, they create better odds for the potential next caller.
 
Dorugremon

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Today, I just tried playing No Limit Hold'em for real money at my friend's house. This is also my first time playing any form of poker. I've been studying the game for quite a long time before playing for real money.

Book learnin' is going to carry you just so far. The learning isn't complete until you sit down behind a stack of chips and put that book learning to the test.

The game was 8 players, $0.20/$0.40 blinds and everyone bought in for $20 (50 big blinds). I managed to win exactly $27 (profit) at the end of the session. But, I felt that I still played poorly despite playing against players I think are fishes.
That's to be expected. You are going to play poorly at first. That doesn't matter. Keep the stakes painless, and if you play less poorly than they do, you win. What's even more important is to see exactly where you're playing poorly and fix that.

So, the table was very loose-passive especially pre-flop.

Pre-flop
Often there will be 5 players seeing the flop. If I raise pre-flop even on the button with a reasonable hand, those that already limped almost always called my raise. My raise was always 3x the big blind +1 for each limper. So, on average if I raised pre-flop, 3 players including me will see the flop.
Do you want them in or out? If you want them out, you need to find a raise size that's bigger than their resolve to call. In some of these fishy games, that can mean opening for 10X, 12X, or more. That's gonna make 1/2 pot c-bets a lot more expensive, but your c-bets are more likely to work against one player than if half the field trails in.

Sometimes, they lead out on the flop although I was the aggressor. If I totally missed, I would just fold which I'm not sure when I should flop and when I shouldn't.
There's a reason that's called a "donk bet": it usually means that the donk making that bet has a fair hand, not good enough to take to the river, so he wants to end it right then and there. Maybe test them with a raise. See what happens. That's the only way you're gonna learn.

I just feel like they can often be bluffing. If I try to do a c-bet when I miss, I often get called and just give up on the turn unless I'm drawing to something. Hands often go to the showdown as everyone just doesn't believe everyone when someone bets the river.
You need more than just "feel". That's what fish do: they make excuses to justify calling, including believing everyone else is bluffing. These rec-fish didn't come to fold, fold, fold: they came to play and folding isn't playing. What do you know about their bluffing tendencies?

I probably should never raise pre-flop unless I have a strong pocket pair such as AA, KK, QQ as these hands are very likely to stay as the best hand on the flop. If I have other hands that I want to see a flop with, I should just call. However, if I play like this, the others would know that when I raise pre-flop, it means I have strong pocket pairs.

I should never bluff.
For a rank beginner, probably not a bad policy. Get the basics down before you worry about the "fancy" stuff. As for worries about being exploited, these rec-fish won't do that, even if they know what you're doing. They can always find some bullshit reason for calling anyway. Then they whine: "I knew you had it", as their jacks lose to your kings.

So, what is the optimal way to play at this kind of tables? This seems like loose-passive pre-flop but loose-aggressive post-flop table.
It's too soon to be worrying about "optimal" just yet. Gain more experience, then worry about it. If you can start out break-even, or just a small loser, you're doing great for a beginner.

Side Question: Are the situations the same when it's 9-handed folded to the button versus 6-handed folded to the button? In 9-handed, it would seem that the blinds are more likely to have something, but maths doesn't seem to agree.
Yep, the same. The only difference is that, at 6-max, there are six more cards in the deck, so more flops, but that evens out over the long run as the cards removed are completely random.
 
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Something the people in this thread either don't know or aren't telling you is that the more people in a hand, the less your hand matters. I even fold AA if more than 3 (so 4+) people are reraising me confidently or calling because once 4 or more are there it takes only one combo of 2 out of the others to outdraw your top pair (which is all that such an amazing hand really is) and bam you lose money.

NOTE: I don't fold AA to four or more for 3-bet or something, only if all players are significantly deep-stacking preflop whereby I can no longer read into their hand strength once the flop hits and if I miss my AAA, i'm now cornered to fold.

In other words, wait very very patiently for situations where there appears to be people fearing each other and then enter. Against pure noobs/fish never ever play to bluff, always value bet because they truly won't fold (or if they do you can't predict it).
 
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Yep, the same. The only difference is that, at 6-max, there are six more cards in the deck, so more flops, but that evens out over the long run as the cards removed are completely random.

It's also good to note that in 6max blinds defend more often and with more agressive attitude.
 
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