How to play JJ-KK postflop with overcards

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Papier24

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So I would like to have some advice for a situation I'm often involved in.

Let's say I play against a decent TAG player who open raises 3bb CO. I 3bb him on the small blind with JJ-KK and he calls.
Flop comes sth like A-K-7 rainbow.
So I really find it difficult to know what to do in these situations. I think betting doesn't make to much sense because I only get called by stronger hands. If I check and my opponent makes a big bet I really don't know what to do.
Often players tend to bluff in these situations because my check clearly tells them I have JJ or QQ or light 3betted them with some weak suited connectors.

How do you handle these situations in a 6max Cash game ?
 
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Newqy

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Make a c bet around half pot or 60% pot if you get call check on the turn and play careful if a tag player shows real aggression by 3 betting u on the flop then its an easy fold if its a calling station/fish or LAG the value bet big if they show they will call u down with anything but fold to an all in
 
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sekcapilniqt

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You expect to see three cards and if came K or J shoving too all-in
if you do not come you check only pay bit by bit
 
cheapseats76

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I think by betting the flop you get a feel of what your opponent called you with but if you check then you are in the dark and like you said the check shows weakness unless you make this play with made hands as well. In the beginning of a session this is a tough decision as most of the table doesn't know what your playing and will call your cbet almost always. However if you have already established a table image then a cbet makes perfect sense. With 2 over cards on the board you also have to be worried about any draws because what hands are calling your 3 bet, 2 high cards and pockets down to 5 probably. Good luck on the felts!
 
deform fedot

deform fedot

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You can of course check the hero on the flop!) If TAG makes a bet, then we apply check / raise!) This is a very strong trick!) If he makes a call - then we will know with confidence that now his cards are better than ours!))
CO - late position, there may be some suited connectors and other bundles ...
 
PokerNuts01

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Poker is a game about ranges. As such, there is no cookie-cutter answer to questions like this. You want to figure out the range of villain, and figure out how best to play against it.
For example, if you opened in UTG and villain called from UTG+1 and he does this with a range of {AQ+,JJ-99} then it's probably best simply to check/fold on the flop: he has a lot of combinations that beat you, and you'll often find a way to get to showdown anyway against his hands that you beat.
On the other hand, if you opened in CO and villain called from BB and he does this with 50% of all hands, then you are way ahead of his range, and can play it in many ways, depending on how to best extract value while not over-playing your hand.
If you opened from UTG and villain called on BB and he does this with 50% of hands, then you have an extra option: if villain is not a calling station post-flop then you can consider turning your hand into a bluff when that's appropriate on later streets, because your range is so strong against his.
Overall, you have to always think of villain's range (and about your perceived range) and plan accordingly.
 
Claude Chiasson

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It depend the position you are, often i try to follow to see the flop then if there is a K or J.
 
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braveslice

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Yes, if you open UTG tighter tags will many times just call AK, nit will mostly call AK. In 3bet pots AK is a real possibility. You only reduce the number of AK combos from 16 to 12 by having A blocker, compared to 12 combos of QQ,KK,AA.

Without good dynamics you don’t do a big mistake by folding AQo to 3bet, AQs is a tad better.

And what do you do with AQ when the flop is KQ2?

There is no real answer to this, everything you know about poker is on the line here. Bet, x/fold, x/call are all valid answers.

Against very passive fish caller you might for example bet and get value from AJ,Q9,Q8s etc. If your villain bets you can just fold. Against super agro you might opt to call 3 streets =) Against passive tag you might op to x/fold and if flop goes x just bet turn or river (sometimes both) for value.

If you don’t know what to do, betting might be the way to go mostly. You still have outs to improve, just stay away from multi street bluffs.

This topic is related: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/how-play-jj-kk-postflop-overcards-320865/
 
PokerNuts01

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I bet flop and his call.. check check turn.. hi is shove river, i fold.. maybe it's a bluff, but I will never find out
 

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braveslice

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Oh well I posted to a wrong topic =)
 
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Bagdalac4ever

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If I see that there exists a possibility that my opponent has stronger hand than mine, I will not call all in or raise. Better to fold than to lose.
 
leshausa03

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Catch set when there either. Much increase the bet on the flop if no overcards. If you count on the fact that the opponent is bluffing, you'll lose
 
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JackRabbitSlim

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So I would like to have some advice for a situation I'm often involved in.

Let's say I play against a decent TAG player who open raises 3bb CO. I 3bb him on the small blind with JJ-KK and he calls.
Flop comes sth like A-K-7 rainbow.
So I really find it difficult to know what to do in these situations. I think betting doesn't make to much sense because I only get called by stronger hands. If I check and my opponent makes a big bet I really don't know what to do.
Often players tend to bluff in these situations because my check clearly tells them I have JJ or QQ or light 3betted them with some weak suited connectors.

How do you handle these situations in a 6max Cash game ?

I will tend to throw out a feeler bet (about 30% of the pot) or check if I think villain has hit his high card.
 
Pauliefromgoodfellas

Pauliefromgoodfellas

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So I would like to have some advice for a situation I'm often involved in.

Let's say I play against a decent TAG player who open raises 3bb CO. I 3bb him on the small blind with JJ-KK and he calls.
Flop comes sth like A-K-7 rainbow.
So I really find it difficult to know what to do in these situations. I think betting doesn't make to much sense because I only get called by stronger hands. If I check and my opponent makes a big bet I really don't know what to do.
Often players tend to bluff in these situations because my check clearly tells them I have JJ or QQ or light 3betted them with some weak suited connectors.

How do you handle these situations in a 6max Cash game ?

I think you should mix up what you do in these spots. It feels right that you should occasionally be betting 1/2-2/3pot and occasionally be checking, you just need to also make sure that you occasionally check when you have 2 pair , trips, or a made str8 so you can balance out your checking range.
 
Pauliefromgoodfellas

Pauliefromgoodfellas

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I will tend to throw out a feeler bet (about 30% of the pot) or check if I think villain has hit his high card.

I think you need to ask yourself if you are ever making feeler bets when you have a made hand. A good TAG player will exploit this by slow playing made hands and 3 betting and floating speculative hands.
 
Masi2197

Masi2197

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Having this kind of pairs does not mean that you have a winning starting hand, raise the ante before the flop will take away some of your opponents, they will do you damage, doubling your apuewta after the turn will give you the opportunity to see your opponent's movement and know that Strong is your hand
 
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If you are not sure, then you could try using smaller bets for pot control as an alternative to either simply giving up or over committing.
 
RiversRage

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Lots of great information/answers on this topic. Its such a feel the moment kind of play unless you have a great read on your opponent or you have seen a trend of the villain folding to c-bets very often or if you yourself have become predictable do something totally different to throw off the opponent. Bottom line is stick with your gut and play aggressive.
 
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Tricky123bet

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When out of position with an overcard on the flop I would sometimes check-call, sometimes check-fold, depending on the opponent. If its a pretty dry flop and the opponent isn't particularly aggressive, I would often just fold, since it's hard to make a profit out of position.
In position however, I usually check back the flop, and then bet if they check to me again on the turn. I feel like that is the most straightforward way to play it. The last thing you want to do is to put yourself in spots where you feel like you cant fold "because he could be bluffing". Keep it simple.
 
WVHillbilly

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Ask yourself what sort of range a TAG player is going to flat a 3bet with preflop and then figure out how your pair does against that range when the flop comes with 1 or 2 overcards to your pair? Unless stacks are deep he's shouldn't to be setmining in a 3bet pot which leaves him with a range that generally crushes you after the flop. So OOP, check-fold in the scenario described. Now the looser the original opener becomes the more you should be willing to check/call a street, maybe 2. I don't like betting out unless he's a truly terrible player who will call with worse (pretty unlikely) since he's never folding better.
 
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LFC_yllnwa

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So I would like to have some advice for a situation I'm often involved in.

Let's say I play against a decent TAG player who open raises 3bb CO. I 3bb him on the small blind with JJ-KK and he calls.
Flop comes sth like A-K-7 rainbow.
So I really find it difficult to know what to do in these situations. I think betting doesn't make to much sense because I only get called by stronger hands. If I check and my opponent makes a big bet I really don't know what to do.
Often players tend to bluff in these situations because my check clearly tells them I have JJ or QQ or light 3betted them with some weak suited connectors.

How do you handle these situations in a 6max Cash game ?

If there is no flash or straight draw then you need to bet only on the turn or river. Otherwise, the opponent is likely to fold ... If there is a big bet on the flop, you need to call, but before that, remember that your opponent plays often! If the turn is safe for you, and the opponent puts more, you need to go all-in!
 
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Bagdalac4ever

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I would raise for pot or half pot just to check if someone have something big and if someone goes all on my raise, it is the sign that I need to fold or I could take the chance.
 
Jhon Lozano

Jhon Lozano

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In situations like this, the best thing you can do is to study the flop, the projects superior to yours, and your project; And always try to have your hand on the turn, if it is necessary to get to the river do it without investing many chips, so losses would be few, but you could get good chips if you get to your project.
 
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Dan Lucas

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In the situation you describe, unless you know your opponent's range of calling hands, you should not check flop just because you have over cards on the flop. In many cases, a 60% bet on the flop may get you called by a small pair or even a straight draw. betting the turn if a blank comes will often get a hand like K9 to KQ to fold with the A on board. Sometimes, you have to bet to get some kind of information on your opponent. My question to you is what if he had a hand like 7 10? How would you feel if you checked and he hit a 10 or 7 on the river? And are those cards a possibility for his range? How about Q 7? In many cases, we don't bet because we assume our opponent has a certain hand. Remember, your bet should always have a purpose. Are you looking for information, hoping to get a weaker hand to call, or hoping to get a fold?
 
supermoto

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I do not know how to play them, that's the reality poker took another course
 
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