How to play AK/AQ postflop from blinds when CO/BTN calls 3-bet?

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Beasty2k

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I find it very difficult and annoying to play AK, AQ etc from the blinds when I miss the flop. It happens fairly often and I get lost very quickly - should I just fold them pre?

Say 100bb deep I 3b a standard/unknown player from CO or BTN open and he calls. I often cbet "good" flops, get called and sometimes get frustrated and stuck in 2 or 3-barrelling and wind up getting stacked by 99, 88, A7 on Axx boards when villain calls all the way. Should I just play fit/fold? Cbet flop and give up if called (which means I lose 25bb after 3bet PF + cbet 3/4 pot, is that a waste of chips?). When to barrell? I am bleeding cash from this situation.

Do I cbet / plan to barrell on the following flops with say AQ and what are good barrelling cards?
349r ?
JJ2dd ?
K75r ?
KJx ?
Axx ? Do I stack OTT/OTR here when I can if called all the way?

Maybe my general problem is just playing oop. What other plays on different flop textures are worth discussing? Any other pointers?
 
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nmaher18

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You don't have to 3 bet! I personally don't want to be playing huge pots oop. and with hands like Ak or Aq by 3 betting you're gonna be getting folds from hands that you want to stick around!
 
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Beasty2k

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You don't have to 3 bet! I personally don't want to be playing huge pots oop. and with hands like Ak or Aq by 3 betting you're gonna be getting folds from hands that you want to stick around!
Thanks for replying, ok so I just call and play a premium or close to premium non-made hand oop without initiative? Doesn't seem logical to me.
 
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nmaher18

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I get that you want the betting lead but when you don't make a hand you're not going to get much money even if you do get them to fold! By just calling you can make more the times you do hit! I definitely don't see raising oop with AQo as a particularly winning strategy!
 
jhonihgrass

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You don't have to 3 bet! I personally don't want to be playing huge pots oop. and with hands like Ak or Aq by 3 betting you're gonna be getting folds from hands that you want to stick around!

I agree, but also do not fall into bluffs, be careful playing ace high!
 
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Beasty2k

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So basically, vs a potential steal, we cannot be 3-betting with a holding as strong as AK/AQ?

We call instead, and give up if we miss? Feels weak and I cannot see that being profitable.
 
Cafeman

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You don't have to cbet 3/4 pot, and you don't even have to cbet.

First off, are we 3betting for value? I assume so. We expect to get called by worse aces right? So when we do hit an Axx flop we are obviously looking to slowly get the money in by the river. Now, does villain bet when checked to? We don't always have to cbet. We can x/c and x/f.

If you were at my table and I knew you were 3betting AK/AQ and then cbetting when you whiff and giving up, what would I do? Float your cbets and take it away on the turn. Or if I knew you were going to x/f I would always stab the flop. This means that you might consider x/c flops and x/c turns from time to time too. You know, for balance. You can't have a git like me calling your 3bets IP and taking away every pot cos you didn't hit TP.

Also, cbetting around 1/2 pot is fine in a 3bet pot on a good deal of flops.
 
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Beasty2k

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You don't have to cbet 3/4 pot, and you don't even have to cbet.

First off, are we 3betting for value? I assume so. We expect to get called by worse aces right? So when we do hit an Axx flop we are obviously looking to slowly get the money in by the river. Now, does villain bet when checked to? We don't always have to cbet. We can x/c and x/f.

If you were at my table and I knew you were 3betting AK/AQ and then cbetting when you whiff and giving up, what would I do? Float your cbets and take it away on the turn. Or if I knew you were going to x/f I would always stab the flop. This means that you might consider x/c flops and x/c turns from time to time too. You know, for balance. You can't have a git like me calling your 3bets IP and taking away every pot cos you didn't hit TP.

Also, cbetting around 1/2 pot is fine in a 3bet pot on a good deal of flops.
Thanks!

Yes the 3bet is for value vs a potential steal. Aren't we raising here most of the time? Just trying to understand the previous posters arguing to call instead.

Yes I can see calls by Axs and the like, but not sure how much pressure my TPTK can stand oop as their steal range is so wide (although narrowed by them calling the 3b, it should still be pretty wide as they can play position).

On the flop, I can't say I always do this or that, but come to think of it I will cbet whether I miss or hit in this scenario (barring extemely wet boards), so shouldn't be too easy to read. But my take is villain rarely folds to a cbet here at all.

I just seem to encounter loads of problems here. If I hit TPTK, cbet and get called, maybe I x/c turn for balance and then face a potsize river bet, I am absolutely clueless. If I bet turn instead and check river, I may have to face a tough river decision as well.

If I hit and x/c flop I feel more often than not it is checked down and I win a smallish pot vs 99 or so, letting loads of dangerous drawing cards fall on turn & river.

If I miss and cbet, I am often called and need to give up (?) on turn most of the time.

If I miss and check, 9 times out of 10 villain will take a stab in position and I will have to fold.

Is it just that their range is stronger than I have thought, or are they having more trouble folding a 3-bet pot? Or are they using position all the time to bluff me off my hand?

Maybe just fold 'em pre, eh?
 
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nmaher18

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So basically, vs a potential steal, we cannot be 3-betting with a holding as strong as AK/AQ.

I didn't say you can't just that you don't have to. Also didnt say you have to give up straight away when you miss. just think its better to come over the top with weaker hands here, AK/AQ play well post flop so why not see one!

Also agree c-bet is too high!
 
Abedin120

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In my opinion if you had AQ and somebody before you make raise that you should go fold, and if nobody make raise that you can make a raise 3xBB.
In situations when you had AK than you always raise 3xBB if nobody before you make a raise, and if somebody before you make a raise than you make re-raise 3x his raise.
 
remus_ny

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I would just call with AQ from blinds, but if he steals a lot and he's fold to 3bet is small I would definitely 3bet for value.
With AK I always 3bet or 4bet for value even if he has a high fold 3bet because it's not like when you are in LP and you just call with AK because he has a high fold 3bet and you want to play with him post flop and let him bet bet bet with a weaker ace.
 
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