How to play AA or KK on NL25 Bovada 6 max zoom / ring

Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
Hi,

I'm currently playing 25 NL on Bovada. My normal set up is: 1 table of zoom and 1 table of normal 6 max. I'm doing okay yet dealing with the bad beats is something else.........especially on Zoom. Well lets not talk about that.

Here is my question.

Today I got dealt aces and kings probably 20 times. Not once today did i get it all in. Out of the 20 times I was dealt this hand the opponents folded to a 3x raise or they called and then folded on the flop.

In live play at a casino these hands are money makers. (usually I'm walking away with 50-100$ minimum every time)

Am i stupid to be checking my pocket aces on the flop? Am i stupid to be checking my pocket kings on the flop?

In live play you just keep barreling with this hand. So what is the best way to play aces or kings in 25 NL anyone know?
 
IPlay

IPlay

Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Total posts
2,593
Chips
0
AA and KK 20 times? What a sick heater! Hope you keep running good!
 
J

jsh169

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Total posts
890
Awards
1
Chips
0
I would recommend for you to stay away from the zoom games, the regular games will have more fish and zoom is considerably harder/tighter. It's not good when your asking how to play the best two hands in poker, since you can't get any reads on your opponent your doing what is most ev, betting can never really be a mistake anyhow unless you totally crush the board ie AA on A44 board.
 
S

Septimius_25

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Total posts
5
Chips
0
Really AA or KK 20 times? I play 9-12 tables at once and don't remember a session where I got dealt those starting hands that many times pre flop, just saying. That being said don't check those hands unless you got some read on your opponents or your HUD stats indicate that it would be in your best interest to check the flop. For example, although AA is a nice hand, 9-10 suited is favored to win!
 
T

Toomin

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Total posts
49
Chips
0
I would recommend for you to stay away from the zoom games, the regular games will have more fish and zoom is considerably harder/tighter. It's not good when your asking how to play the best two hands in poker, since you can't get any reads on your opponent your doing what is most ev, betting can never really be a mistake anyhow unless you totally crush the board ie AA on A44 board.
Agree with you 100%.

You get no 'advantage' that you need here to play zoom. Stick to the other games. You wont be able to make it profitable at zoom without hours and hours of grinding.
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
Really AA or KK 20 times? I play 9-12 tables at once and don't remember a session where I got dealt those starting hands that many times pre flop, just saying. That being said don't check those hands unless you got some read on your opponents or your HUD stats indicate that it would be in your best interest to check the flop. For example, although AA is a nice hand, 9-10 suited is favored to win!

9/10 favored to win against AA???


HU AA is 78% 10/9 Std is 22% to win.


I would say by guesstimate about 15-20x I was dealt AA or KK yesterday. I didn't make big bucks with it either unfortunately but I think I'm raising to small.

I also played for probably 7-8 hours yesterday. Zoom table and a normal 6 max table.
 
J

Jreece18

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2015
Total posts
306
Chips
0
Post hands.. Seriously, not threads like this. Checking aces on the flop? What flop? Against who? It's so vague...
 
6

6bet me

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Total posts
835
Chips
0
Really AA or KK 20 times? I play 9-12 tables at once and don't remember a session where I got dealt those starting hands that many times pre flop, just saying.

The probability of getting dealt AA or KK is roughly 1 in 110 times. So if you play 2.2k hands (which is only 4 hours of playing at 550 hands per hour), you're expected to get dealt AA/KK 20 times. And some sessions you do get a bit lucky and get dealt AA/KK 20 times within 1k hands. I wouldn't consider getting AA/KK 20 times in a session to be anything out of the ordinary.
 
Dorugremon

Dorugremon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Total posts
456
Awards
1
Chips
19
Today I got dealt aces and kings probably 20 times.

I think someone's exaggerating.

Not once today did i get it all in. Out of the 20 times I was dealt this hand the opponents folded to a 3x raise or they called and then folded on the flop.
So what's your problem? You got the money, be happy. That beats the living hell out of letting them stay in cheap only to draw out.

In live play you just keep barreling with this hand. So what is the best way to play aces or kings in 25 NL anyone know?
You already know. It's not hands that win pots, it's situations. If nobody has a hand, they won't play. It's as simple as that. I'm always happy to take down the blinds uncontested regardless of whether I'm playing aces, or on a stone cold steal with nothing. That's better than limping aces, letting someone trail in behind you, then stacking off to a miracle flop they wouln't've hit if you'd raised pre.
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
I think someone's exaggerating.

So what's your problem? You got the money, be happy. That beats the living hell out of letting them stay in cheap only to draw out.

You already know. It's not hands that win pots, it's situations. If nobody has a hand, they won't play. It's as simple as that. I'm always happy to take down the blinds uncontested regardless of whether I'm playing aces, or on a stone cold steal with nothing. That's better than limping aces, letting someone trail in behind you, then stacking off to a miracle flop they wouln't've hit if you'd raised pre.

Typically. Aces or kings, at least in my experiences are big hands that typically can get you paid off from hands like AK or AQ. and on many occasions, a pocket pair.

I just found it surprising that after seeing aces or kings 20X I didn't seem to get much out of it. Not exaggerating, 2 6Max tables with two zoom tables can get you results like that.

Believe it or not, I think limping aces or kings from utg or early position, is always a good play in a full ring game.

Here is why:

#1 Nobody will be able to put you on KK or AA unless you make a 3bet.
#2 You can 3bet if there is a raise from late position
#3 A standard 3xBB raise from EP is still likely to get two or three callers. Aces are only going to be good there 60% of the time. Against three it is probably about 50% chance.
#4 When you make a 6x or 7xBB raise from EP it is sort of a giveaway that you have AA or KK. In these situations people are reluctant to call you.

I sure wouldn't be happy if nobody called me with Aces or Kings......your a 5 to 1 favorite heads up your odds don't get much better then that. You can enter the game with confidence that you have the winning hand. I personally believe you always want to get it in with Aces every time no matter what. Unless the board texture is just so bad. Winning the blinds at a casino. basically means you win about 2$ after the rake on a 1-2 table. That's good to you lol?
 
Last edited:
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
#3 A standard 3xBB raise from EP is still likely to get two or three callers. Aces are only going to be good there 60% of the time. Against three it is probably about 50% chance.
Let's give the correct %:

Vs 1 opponent with ATC: 85%
Vs 2 opponents with ATC: 73%
Vs 3 opponents with ATC: 64%
Vs 4 opponents with ATC: 56%

For every $ you put into the pot, you have an EV of:

Vs 1 opponent: (0.85*2)-(0.15*1) = +1.55$
Vs 2 opponents: (0.73*3)-(0.27*1) = +1.92$
Vs 3 opponents: (0.64*4)-(0.36*1) = +2.20$
Vs 4 opponents: (0.56*5)-(0.44*1) = +2.36$

The more opponents in the pot with you, the higher your EV. ;)
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Total posts
305
Chips
0
Let's give the correct %:

Vs 1 opponent with ATC: 85%
Vs 2 opponents with ATC: 73%
Vs 3 opponents with ATC: 64%
Vs 4 opponents with ATC: 56%

For every $ you put into the pot, you have an EV of:

Vs 1 opponent: (0.85*2)-(0.15*1) = +1.55$
Vs 2 opponents: (0.73*3)-(0.27*1) = +1.92$
Vs 3 opponents: (0.64*4)-(0.36*1) = +2.20$
Vs 4 opponents: (0.56*5)-(0.44*1) = +2.36$

The more opponents in the pot with you, the higher your EV. ;)


Thank you. Much better presented.
 
Dorugremon

Dorugremon

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Total posts
456
Awards
1
Chips
19
I just found it surprising that after seeing aces or kings 20X I didn't seem to get much out of it. Not exaggerating, 2 6Max tables with two zoom tables can get you results like that.

OK, you're not exaggerating. In my previous two sessions, I had pocket kings seven times. Session before last,I hit them pre three times in a row. I won once with them.

Last session, I had KK twice, won one by picking up the blinds uncontested. Second time, i stacked off against a fish who binked a gut shot on the river with a hand he had no business playing: an off suit, two-gapper, in a 3! pot pre. Yes, he actually called a 9XBB 3-bet to draw to garbage. I also had a pair of bullets against pocket kings. I put him all-in pre. The vill had the Kd, three diamonds hit the board, then a black card, then a river diamond. To add insult to injury, the river was the Ad.

Yeah, that is just sofa king much better than winning the blinds 20X uncontested. The world's smallest violin is playing you a sad song.

Believe it or not, I think limping aces or kings from utg or early position, is always a good play in a full ring game.

Here is why:

#1 Nobody will be able to put you on KK or AA unless you make a 3bet.
#2 You can 3bet if there is a raise from late position
#3 A standard 3xBB raise from EP is still likely to get two or three callers. Aces are only going to be good there 60% of the time. Against three it is probably about 50% chance.
#4 When you make a 6x or 7xBB raise from EP it is sort of a giveaway that you have AA or KK. In these situations people are reluctant to call you.
If you were talking about fixed limit, you might have a point. Pick up pocket rockets or cowboys UTG at fixed limit, pop it, the next guy folds, the guy after him calls cold and sets of a chain reaction of calls, and you're five ways to the flop with a very vulnerable hand OOP. There may be merit to the notion that you should save a bet in case you have to fold. Or you can win a monster pot if you hit gin after letting them come in for the price of a BB.

No limit is a whole 'nother animal. If you get aces beat at limit, it just costs you a few bets. At no-limit, it can cost you your entire stack. If you go very multiway to the flop from an early position, then it's your own damn fault: you should have raised bigger.

Open limping aces from up front is bad for another reason: you give up the chance to stack off pre, while your hand is the stone cold Brazils. The absolute worst thing that can happen pre is your opponent calls your all-in with the other two aces, and the only winner of that hand is the rat hole.

Limp/3! is a hideous play at no-limit that announces you have aces or kings. It's something I do very seldom, and only when it's favourable: I have an absolute maniac behind me, and I know he'll pay off regardless of the fact that I've announced my hand by limp/jamming.

"When you make a 6x or 7xBB raise from EP it is sort of a giveaway that you have AA or KK. In these situations people are reluctant to call you".

Does it really? In some games, 6X or 7X or more are game standard raises. If a 3X open is game standard, I wouldn't worry too much about a 7X open with pocket rockets. Fishy players aren't thinking along those lines, and if they have a hand they think is good enough to call cold, they're just as likely to call for 7X as 3X. That's what makes them fish: they think only in terms of their own two cards. They think "range" is an appliance you cook on or where cowboys work and "equity" has something to do with real estate. Bet sizing, SPR, relative hand value are completely foreign concepts to them.

Otters think, and fish react. Guess who eats whom?

If you're giving away your hand strength, then you're not balancing your range (is this really necessary, are you up against thinking players?) Get that 6X early position open in with hands that aren't aces or kings. Do it with mid-suited connectors, small pocket pairs, or even trash hands like Q2-off. You just might pick up the blinds -- always a good result. (This is one mistake nitty players make: they never take advantage of their nitty table image by putting one over.) On your really good days, you flop something like QQ2 and stack someone. The next time you come over the top for 7XBB, they'll either give it to you, or look you up light, either way is just fine.
 
Bovada Poker - Bovada Casino
Top