How much to raise with KK+?

I play .01/.02 full ring and have a problem. Whenever I get AA or KK I will raise anywhere from 6 cents to 12 cents depending on position and how many people folded to me. But lately I will get beaten by limpers with seemingly anything as they make the straight, flush, set or whatever. I know that at this level thats more then expected but should I be betting more in these situations (20 cents +)? Does/did anyone else at low have this problem?

Just now I was beaten by Q5s when i had AA because he pulled off a straight flush. Yay me

You can only do what you can, then the Poker Gods take over.......

kingme620 said:

I play .01/.02 full ring and have a problem. Whenever I get AA or KK I will raise anywhere from 6 cents to 12 cents depending on position and how many people folded to me. But lately I will get beaten by limpers with seemingly anything as they make the straight, flush, set or whatever. I know that at this level thats more then expected but should I be betting more in these situations (20 cents +)? Does/did anyone else at low have this problem?

Just now I was beaten by Q5s when i had AA because he pulled off a straight flush. Yay me

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5xBB+1BB for every limper is the proper betting when holding AA/KK

There should be no standard raise with any hand. Guidelines like shinedown posted are a fine start but with KK/AA you really want to get as much in as possible preflop, so your bet should be the maximum amount you think someone at your current table will call. If there is a guy who just has to see every flop make it a quarter or whatever you think he will call. If the table is super tight (doubtful at .01/.02) .08 may be too much. Remember one other thing, you want idiots to call you with hands like Q5. These are the people that build your bankroll.

WVHillbilly said:

There should be no standard raise with any hand.

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This might be half reasonable in micro limits where 95% of the players have no clue beyond that fact they were dealt two cards, but once you move beyond micro limits, this is just plain bad. Sure you want to maximize the winnings whenever you can, but at higer limits (as more and more players start to pay attention), they will get a read on you and eat you alive. Yes, mixing up your play is required, but really the goal is to different hands the same way. When you raise big because you've got a huge hand and smaller with a weaker hand, you're giving away crucial information to you opponents. But when you open raise to the same size regardless if your hand is AA, 22, QJs, or 97o, there is no read to get on you. And they'll learn that as you show down the nuts several times. That's how you get credit and how you can raise with air after awhile and have everyone fold. They see you win hands with monsters on an open raise to a consistent amount, and you get your credibility.

Like I said, playing to maximize is one thing, but these huge variances in open raises based on hand strength is a leak to be plugged as a player moves up levels.

kingme620 said:

I play .01/.02 full ring and have a problem.

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To keep it simple , Playing.01/0.2 rings games is the problem, The fact of the matter is, the ppl who u are playing on the micro limit tables are 85% beginner's and alot of time won their money in a freeroll,Which means they have nothing to lose,as a matter of fact , there is nothing really to lose.If i ever play the .1/.2 tables , and I was raise 6 cents,sure i would call with cards that I normally would not, My advice is keep a clear of theses tables ,mayb try .25.50,I think you'll fine the players a LITTLE less crazy, If not , just limp with them hands, cuz I'm after trying the low tables just cuz i had 5 bucks left over in a account, and in my opinion its not even close to being poker!

Jack Daniels said:

This might be half reasonable in micro limits where 95% of the players have no clue beyond that fact they were dealt two cards, but once you move beyond micro limits, this is just plain bad. Sure you want to maximize the winnings whenever you can, but at higer limits (as more and more players start to pay attention), they will get a read on you and eat you alive. Yes, mixing up your play is required, but really the goal is to different hands the same way. When you raise big because you've got a huge hand and smaller with a weaker hand, you're giving away crucial information to you opponents. But when you open raise to the same size regardless if your hand is AA, 22, QJs, or 97o, there is no read to get on you. And they'll learn that as you show down the nuts several times. That's how you get credit and how you can raise with air after awhile and have everyone fold. They see you win hands with monsters on an open raise to a consistent amount, and you get your credibility.

Like I said, playing to maximize is one thing, but these huge variances in open raises based on hand strength is a leak to be plugged as a player moves up levels.

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I agree with you totally!

Jack Daniels said:

This might be half reasonable in micro limits where 95% of the players have no clue beyond that fact they were dealt two cards, but once you move beyond micro limits, this is just plain bad. Sure you want to maximize the winnings whenever you can, but at higer limits (as more and more players start to pay attention), they will get a read on you and eat you alive. Yes, mixing up your play is required, but really the goal is to different hands the same way. When you raise big because you've got a huge hand and smaller with a weaker hand, you're giving away crucial information to you opponents. But when you open raise to the same size regardless if your hand is AA, 22, QJs, or 97o, there is no read to get on you. And they'll learn that as you show down the nuts several times. That's how you get credit and how you can raise with air after awhile and have everyone fold. They see you win hands with monsters on an open raise to a consistent amount, and you get your credibility.

Like I said, playing to maximize is one thing, but these huge variances in open raises based on hand strength is a leak to be plugged as a player moves up levels.

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I agree that you cannot raise a the same each time you have a certain hand (in fact I said as much) but I do not agree that you should always raise the same regardless of the hand you hold, the opponents left to act, your table image, and how loose/tight the table is as a whole.

WVHillbilly said:

but I do not agree that you should always raise the same regardless of the hand you hold, the opponents left to act, your table image, and how loose/tight the table is as a whole.

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Guess we're just going to differ a bit on this.

I agree that the table status (loose/tight) plays into it, but that doens't come along all of a sudden. It starts from early on and normalizes as you find where the table/players are at and what the raise thresholds are. It isn't simply raise 4xBB this hand, 7xBB the next hand, and 5xBB the next hand, etc continuously. It's more of an iterative process like 3xBB to start and evaluate who calls how much. Then maybe adjust it up to 5xBB and evaluate to see the change.

But once you've found the balance point (let's say it happens to be 5xBB this time), then your standard opening raise would be 5xBB and standard raise with limpers would be 5xBB + 1xBB per limper. On average (I'd venture 90% or more of the time), I wouldn't sway from this. On the rare occassion that I have some mega-LAG with a VP$IP of 80% or more, then I might push a bit more with a monster figuring he'll come along. But even then, I have a better chance of getting mega-LAG's money in my stack if I don't play too far out of the norm all of a sudden.

Of course, like I said before, while this does apply to some degree at the micro limits and the any two card mentality, the BB #s could be much higher. At 2NL, a 7-8xBB open raise is not uncommon, but just because folks are looser and playing anything, doesn't mean you have to be all over the board. So in my opinion, 2NL is easily beatable without developing bad habits of predictability/readability in bet sizing.

shinedown.45 said:

5xBB+1BB for every limper is the proper betting when holding AA/KK

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i completely agree

sportyguy2k said:

i completely agree

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No , I think not! Mixed it up so your not predictable while adjusting to your environment/table

Little Details

A big raise can often scare off players. Having aces or kings and folding out the blinds isnt exactly what you have in mind. if you are playing good lowball you should be able to put a decent raise in and get someone to call. But the rest is up to the deck.

personally my opinion, some people might disagree though, stop playing those tables they are just a big joke and you lose more money than win. I suggest doing some 1$ sit n gos instead, you can build a br off those. Many people are either really really tight or really loose in them, but its possible to win in them. Well its up to you, personally i hate stars and dont play on there anymore.

Raise min 5x bb...... Your raise should be desided of your opponents calling range, your position and limpers. And your postflop skills.

It is smart to raise different every time, so that your opponents can not set you on a hand.

I will say it is 1 of 20 who is good at micro limits.

bob_tiger said:

personally my opinion, some people might disagree though, stop playing those tables they are just a big joke and you lose more money than win. I suggest doing some 1$ sit n gos instead, you can build a br off those. Many people are either really really tight or really loose in them, but its possible to win in them. Well its up to you, personally i hate stars and dont play on there anymore.

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Its true. I do seem to place a lot in the $1 sngs, just playing solid poker. And at the level of ring games im playing the terrible play of most the people actually costs me money. I'll def. try some more sngs.

To me the best thing to do at these .01/.02 tables is to play Ax suited or Kx suited. Wait for the flush and then when it hits take these idiotic players for all of there chips.

The answer to the original question is simple (but tricky to execute):

You should be the amount most likely to get you heads up for the remainder of the hand.