how many BI's down?

Jackle43

Jackle43

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Just wondering after a two hour session of 4 tabling. How many BI's are we loosing during a normal session?
I know hopefully none but what is a likely number due to variance/bad beats??
Just asking for when i begin to raise my volume how many BI's im expecting to give up from such scenarios without a downswing?
may be a silly question....
 
Jackle43

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I ask because I play more live and am use to slower games and less hands per hour.
 
SofaKingCrazy

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I think this depends on skill set and ability to concentrate.

For the sake of an example lets say my skill is better than yours. If we single tabled for ten hours I would win more BBs per 100 hands. Now if we did this again but 4 tabled and your ability to concentrate is better than mine then your win rate would stay relevantly the same while mine would go down so you would win more BB/100 hands than me. I guess this would be the same for buy-ins too.

So I guess my answer to you is I have no answer for you. :confused:
 
CAMurray

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Just wondering after a two hour session of 4 tabling. How many BI's are we loosing during a normal session?
I know hopefully none but what is a likely number due to variance/bad beats??
Just asking for when i begin to raise my volume how many BI's im expecting to give up from such scenarios without a downswing?
may be a silly question....

Tonight I'm having a cocktail so only 2 tables so I can enjoy it. but If I'm not up at least 3-4 BIs after 2 hrs of 2 tables, it time to put on a movie.
 
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spstevens

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Not being smug but does your question need more information? I really don't think being down buy ins after sessions as a normal expectation on a recurring basis is a scenario I could tolerate long.
 
Jackle43

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No I didn't mean it as a regular occurrence. I really struggled to write this question to make sense haha.
Im generally asking what is a normal amount of BI's to loose during a session as online we are playing a lot more hands over an extended amount of time?
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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For my my optimum number of tables is 3 (cash 2p4p). when I try to play 4 I just cant keep track of player tendencies to make adequately informed decisions.

With regards to the original question it depends on a few things, one you cant really control but most you can

Variance - expected return vs actual return (evens out long term)
Your state of mind
Distractions
Ability of the other player

Best thing you can do is get the hand histories of any big hands you lose, then the expects can tell you if you played it bad or it was ok to go broke on them/bad luck

If I start a session and go down by a couple of buy ins, I would consider leaving the tables if the reason was related to my mindset.

PS dont raise your volume with crazy multitabling if you are losing or only breaking even playing one. Plug your leaks first or you will just lose money, but on more tables.

good luck.
 
LD1977

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From my short experience, even as a winning player multiple tables really kick up the variance in a shorter amount of time (condensate the swings into shorter time periods).

Currently on average over 12k hands I win around 22bb/100 hands. This is just to give perspective for the next part.

Yesterday I played 4 tables and:

1) In a 240 hands session was up around 1,1 buyins (44.83 bb/100)

2) In a big 1,4k session went from zero to -4 buyins to +1 buyin to +0,3 buyins (2.5 bb/100 in the end but when down to -4 buyins it was some really ugly number :D ) while playing pretty evenly throughout and without tilting as far as I could tell.

3) In next 2 short sessions over 220 hands I was up 2 buyins (around 90 bb/100)

Basically, with more tables the bad beats can accumulate more quickly... I lost in a row 82% chance AllIn, 78% chance AllIn and a 45% chance AllIn and that murdered my winrate pretty efficiently. But by the end of the session I had one lucky suckout and few normal big wins and it all evened out (except, you know, I broke even over 1,4k hands so other than FTP accumulation it was a waste of time).

I think the best is to look at your overall success rate and if you think you are a winning player then just play your game and ride out the ups and downs. If you can't then take a break until you are calm again.

I did notice that when playing 4 tables I am a bit more passive and nitty than when playing 2 tables which I can do comfortably. Reason is, I can't focus on borderline stuff as much so I just fold those hands more.
 
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micromachine

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I've lost about 10 buy-ins in a 2hour session without even playing bad before
 
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I've lost about 10 buy-ins in a 2hour session without even playing bad before

Not even close to my worst. Lost entire bankroll in a single 10k hand session. Got it all in 18 times and 17 of them I had the best hand...Never playing Zoom again...

As to OP, it all depends. Most sessions I get a bad beat or two so I normally lose a buy in just from that but then again I'm just as likely to give out a bad beat. Cracked QQ earlier with my JJ :)
 
LD1977

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I had another bad run yesterday, -6,5 BI in only 1350 hands, with some truly amazing runs of bad luck (those lasted throughout the day, including tournaments, where I somehow managed to twice end up in the money nevertheless).

My win rate plummeted from 27 bb/100 to 14.6 bb/100 so you can imagine how I feel. Losing 75%+ AllIn situations constantly dampens a man's spirit :( could have been worse if I didn't avoid some traps on the way. Basically I played great and got absolutely murdered.

I did deliver one bad beat to someone, which is small consolation for about eight I suffered.

Anyway, the big problem here is that I can't really learn anything from this except maybe to avoid All In situations which are in theory massively profitable but in reality end up eroding my already skinny bankroll. So yeah.
 
micromachine

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My win rate plummeted from 27 bb/100 to 14.6 bb/100 so you can imagine how I feel.

27bb/100 probably wasn't going to be sustainable anyway. 14bb/100 is still a great winrate!

Anyway, the big problem here is that I can't really learn anything from this except maybe to avoid All In situations which are in theory massively profitable but in reality end up eroding my already skinny bankroll. So yeah.

Why would you want to avoid all in situations where you are ahead? What you should learn from this is that variance can be a bitch. Keep playing and it all evens out eventually.
 
LD1977

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Sure, but massive +EV situations with big swings can end up badly if your BR can't take it. That is the problem here.
 
micromachine

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How many buy-ins for 2nl do you have? I suppose if it's less than 20 then avoiding only slightly +EV situations might be wise.
 
LD1977

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Maximum I had was 40 BI, now it is 34 BI. Few more days like yesterday and it is gonna be bad.

I suppose I could just grind freerolls until I get 100 BI but it will take forever.
 
youregoodmate

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Variance is a ****er, just be prepared to drop down the stakes, analyse your play and get right back at it.
 
youregoodmate

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Haha okay well in that case just stick at it. The standard at 2nl is so bad that runbad shouldnt last too long as long you are playing well. For every time your KK runs into AA, someone will stack off with 83o.

I just had a horrible session yesterday so I've posted all my hands up so everyone can laugh at me :D its made it so much easier to take.
 
LD1977

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I will be sure to drop by :)

I don't even count KK vs. AA since I am completely sure those even up over time and are pretty much unavoidable.
 
micromachine

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Should be plenty. It's not very likely at all that variance will bust you with 34BI, I wouldn't worry about avoiding situations where you might be flipping.
 
youregoodmate

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Its almost impossible at 2nl, unless you want to lose. Although I did lose about 15 BI's in 100 hands at 2nl. Deepstacks and a guy kept shoving each hand, EV line went up, BR went down.
 
LD1977

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Ouch :D that is so much worse than what happened to me, I am ashamed to have brought it up now :)

Edit:
You mean "All In EV" line in HEM? What does that show? Correlation between quality of cards and overall result?

My "All In EV" line seems to correlate more less to the overall line, but if you look at the most recent downswing it seems that there are discrepancies which are those bad beats.
 

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youregoodmate

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I always find it helps to hear that someone has lost more. Makes you realise you just run bad sometimes.
 
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Not even close to my worst. Lost entire bankroll in a single 10k hand session. Got it all in 18 times and 17 of them I had the best hand...Never playing Zoom again...

As to OP, it all depends. Most sessions I get a bad beat or two so I normally lose a buy in just from that but then again I'm just as likely to give out a bad beat. Cracked QQ earlier with my JJ :)

If you're losing your whole BR in a sessions; this isn't variance this is being way to under rolled or being a losing player at your limits.
 
LD1977

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Yeah, I am pretty new so I know I can't be sure of myself. But when I analyze the big losses they often seem well played (and those that are tricky end up in HH forum), admittedly some are horrible but there are less and less of those now.

Can someone explain the All In EV graph thingy?
 
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