How to make money playing cash games.

Hanagis

Hanagis

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so i do really enjoy playing cash games when things are going allright ( who doesnt right ;) ). by that i mean just enjoying the game end even breaking even all night and mayb make or loose a lil. I dont usually make much at all but sometimes a little. i am really trying to get better at this but i just cant seem to figure out how to come on top. i try playing TAG but almost everytime i raise preflop i never hit and am finding its costing me more in the longrun. ive trid playing in both full ring and 6 max. and all tho its not that much but with what little time i have now i managed to play about 20000 over the past few moths on cash tables. to be honest i try so hard to learn what to do how to read whats going on. ive studied articles and watched videos, but i cant bring my game up. Im not expecting to even make a lot of money either. i would just love to learn how to play through those rough nights where nothing goes your way at all, and become a lil better then a break even player all the time. (actually i havent been breaking even for a while now and is really starting to get depressing ;( ). Ive played MTTs and SnGs also and find i can usually make it up pretty high in the ranks, and get in the money once in a while, but just cant seem to have that kind of a game on cash tables. So if yous could spare a min i would really love to get some help, insight, examples, or even past experiences and how you overcame them. I am really dedicated to this and have been since Ive started. I dont want it to come to an end, but at times it gets really frustrating and im not sure what i should do. So back to the books and i fugured id come here because every1 has always helped with everything elce ive ever needed or have had troubles with, so heres 1 more.

Thanks i really appreciate any and all suggestions.
Im floating on top of the water belly up...
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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If you are playing micros 10nl inclusive and under you dont need books.

Bets hands hard
Call strong draws if cheap
Fold air

Generally if you make better decisions than your opponents overall you will be a winning player, give or take variance.
 
Hanagis

Hanagis

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And please only serious advice, no critism i am still fairly new to the game and usually a real quik learner at everything i do. Just isnt anything like anything elce, it constantly changes and is different everytime u sit at the table. i do taske what your write here seriously so plz do the same Thanks
 
Hanagis

Hanagis

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If you are playing micros 10nl inclusive and under you dont need books.

Bets hands hard
Call strong draws if cheap
Fold air

Generally if you make better decisions than your opponents overall you will be a winning player, give or take variance.


i do do the above but really dont get ahead : (
i find when i raise pre i dont hit, so ill try turn but some 1 reraises or i draw blank again
ill try to just call for cheap flops and then some1 is always waiting to raise me so i fold cus i was just trying for a cheap hand
And Fold air All the time i got that 1 down :D I think :confused:
 
LD1977

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Dunno how helpful I can be considering I have started playing maybe 90 days ago but the good thing is that I am probably playing at nearly the same level as you :D

My entire cash experience is at 2nl so if you are playing higher then do not listen to me since I am not qualified for higher stuff.

Currently I have 8.3bb/100 win rate over 38k hands (currently trying to ride out -5 BI downswing over 8k hands which was -10 BI downswing but I have reversed it a bit :) ), stats say I have been very lucky at the start (when I needed it the most) but the luck has leveled off after that and even is taking back a bit of the "loan" :D

I had some strange experiences so far, foremost being that the harder I try to put people on ranges based on their play, the worse my results (since ranging people at 2nl does not work as advertised :D ) so that may be a bit too sophisticated approach. Also my win rate drops off if I play multiple tables due to reduced level of aggression and worse read on the tables.

What actually works if you want to be break even or better at 2nl:
0. play only 1 table until you can win comfortably
1. play tight, and I mean tighter than the books advise... less tricky decisions post flop = good
2. set mine, that is very profitable
3. do not flush mine, most people pay attention to flushes... if you do flush mine you have to be aggressive, that way you don't look like a draw and will be paid when you hit
4. nobody notices straights unless the board is obviously connected ;)
5. many people don't notice that paired board might mean full house ;)

The most important thing is to:
1. make use of HH part of the forum
2. after you get enough hands, start analyzing your own play and be honest with yourself (you need HEM or PT for the analysis) even if it sucks to realize how bad you are :D

P.S. Ignore KK vs. AA and set over set, that stuff should equalize itself over time.
 
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the lab man

the lab man

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First criticism..

Use paragraphs your first post is just too hard too read ...So i didn't...(and the peeps who really can help you... won't bother even reading or answering your post)

it's all a blur....
 
AlfieAA

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First criticism..

Use paragraphs your first post is just too hard too read ...So i didn't...(and the peeps who really can help you... won't bother even reading or answering your post)

it's all a blur....

Maybe start using commas instead of dots, just too hard to read, but I did, and I'm here to help you.
 
fletchdad

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First criticism..

Use paragraphs your first post is just too hard too read ...So i didn't...(and the peeps who really can help you... won't bother even reading or answering your post)

it's all a blur....

Maybe start using commas instead of dots, just too hard to read, but I did, and I'm here to help you.

You guys crack me up....

@OP: Yea, do make your posts easy to read. Use paragraphs, as stated, it just makes it easier to read, hence more responses.

I will make a couple of comments:

Post HH in the HH analysis section. This is easy learning. Post hands, and then post more.Get involved in the discussion of the hands, and if you dont understand an answer, or the reasoning behind it, ASK. This is one of the beat ways to improve your thought process and it is FREE. You can save the HH of all the sites you list that you play at on your HD. If you dont know how, ask here.

Read the threads in the HH section. Same thing, ask if you dont know why people are saying things.

One thing is, in many situations, there will not be only one way to approach it, so in the HH threads you may see differing opinions. That is also good. Poker has a lot of math, but it is not an absolute science. 1+1 always equals 2, but 3 betting OOP will have different things to consider almost every time you do it.

You cannot hope to find a pat recipe that is a one-size-fits-all way to play poker.

And, to be honest, if you are ending most sessions BE or slightly down at worst, you are already doing a lot right.
 
LD1977

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About formatting - look at my 1st post. That is properly formatted and fairly easy to read and understand.
 
LD1977

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Seriously? :O Which part you don't understand?
 
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ScottishMatt

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You know that part when, ehh. You know. Psst. You go to the interview, and you have to be able to get an erection in front of the camera crew.

Yeah, I don't get it. I thought you could just show up, and you know, get laid.
 
Cafeman

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Hanagis, what do you do to try to improve your game?

LD1977's post doesn't seem far off.

The nanos is basically showdown poker, so just make sure you learn to value bet well and don't pay off, and you'll be fine.
 
forsakenone

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in order to make money playing cash games all you have to do is win.
 
BLACKSTACK

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If you are only playing micros and only one or 2 tables at a time the amount you win/loose wont be much of a difference if you are an average player, It's hard to make much rpfit like that from micros.Have you tried playing tourneys?
 
dirtyoldog

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My best advise for what its worth is dont get tilted. When you find someone sucessfully bluffing you when you have a hand he bets huge you fold then he shows you trash and hes betting every hand and bulllying the table dont say ok thats it im takeing him down and start playing his game thinking even though my hand isnt that good its probably better than his and playing garbage. That seems to be my biggest flaw.
 
John A

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Put a lot of time into away from the game studies. Post a lot of hands, and answer a lot of hand posts. And by a lot, I mean a ton.

At some point invest in a training site. Make some online poker friends, and talk poker over skype or similar chat agent.

Most importantly, make sure you lay out a goal for yourself, and keep yourself accountable. I know a lot of poker players that say they want to get better, but they really don't put the work in. Especially in today's games, you're going to need to put a lot of work. It's not just going to magically happen.
 
Hanagis

Hanagis

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First off thank you all for the advise.
from now on i will make my threads/posts alot clearer for everyone to read by paragraphing it and breaking up my points.

sry for the late responce ive been busy all weekend and now finally found the time to see all the help givin to me.
 
Hanagis

Hanagis

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Dunno how helpful I can be considering I have started playing maybe 90 days ago but the good thing is that I am probably playing at nearly the same level as you :D

My entire cash experience is at 2nl so if you are playing higher then do not listen to me since I am not qualified for higher stuff.

Currently I have 8.3bb/100 win rate over 38k hands (currently trying to ride out -5 BI downswing over 8k hands which was -10 BI downswing but I have reversed it a bit :) ), stats say I have been very lucky at the start (when I needed it the most) but the luck has leveled off after that and even is taking back a bit of the "loan" :D

I had some strange experiences so far, foremost being that the harder I try to put people on ranges based on their play, the worse my results (since ranging people at 2nl does not work as advertised :D ) so that may be a bit too sophisticated approach. Also my win rate drops off if I play multiple tables due to reduced level of aggression and worse read on the tables.

What actually works if you want to be break even or better at 2nl:
0. play only 1 table until you can win comfortably
1. play tight, and I mean tighter than the books advise... less tricky decisions post flop = good
2. set mine, that is very profitable
3. do not flush mine, most people pay attention to flushes... if you do flush mine you have to be aggressive, that way you don't look like a draw and will be paid when you hit
4. nobody notices straights unless the board is obviously connected ;)
5. many people don't notice that paired board might mean full house ;)

The most important thing is to:
1. make use of HH part of the forum
2. after you get enough hands, start analyzing your own play and be honest with yourself (you need HEM or PT for the analysis) even if it sucks to realize how bad you are :D

P.S. Ignore KK vs. AA and set over set, that stuff should equalize itself over time.

yup i also play the micros. i am trying to learn the game as much as possible b4 i move up to harder levels, which from what ive read would be the best approach. as i see your also doing yourself :).

I have Poker Office so i do have the ability to go over my previously played hands, but im not sure how to analyze them properly seeing i dont want to make the same mistakes 2ce or endup creating new ones by not properly analyzing the situation.

When set mining and im first to act would i Check, or Value Bet??
and I like your comment about flush mining. after reading it, it clears alot of things up. usually ill tend to have alot of players just end up folding when i am trying to value bet in this situation. deffinately one im going to keep in mind.

So seeing your also new at this mayb we can try to help with eachothers.
i think that can give me a good oportunity to get beter at seeing how and what to do in certain situations. PM me when ur available if ud be interested.
And thanks for everything.
 
LD1977

LD1977

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I actually messed up my post, have been playing for 45 days not 90 :D don't ask how I made that mistake.

As for cooperation, we are in opposite time zones and although I have switched day and night in January I am getting back to my normal rhythm now so that might be tricky. But as you can see I am active on the forum here.

What you could do is simply go to my profile and look over threads that I posted in HH forum - there are quite a few situations in my questions that will be familiar to you too.

After that you can start posting your own HHs etc., use http://www.handconverter.com/

Set mining - usually in unraised pots you open with pocket pairs with a raise, set mining is calling a single raise before you to try and see the flop (as it has been explained to me :D) but in EP you can just limp with small pairs 22-66. It is important to note stack sizes of potential future "victims", it is stupid to call lets say 0.06 if he has like 0.40 left, you can't make him pay for the small chance you hit the set.

There are people here with much more knowledge and experience than I have although I have found that some of the advanced advice does not seem to work really well at 2nl (but it is still useful for later).
 
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Hanagis

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I will make a couple of comments:

Post HH in the HH analysis section. This is easy learning. Post hands, and then post more.Get involved in the discussion of the hands, and if you dont understand an answer, or the reasoning behind it, ASK. This is one of the beat ways to improve your thought process and it is FREE. You can save the HH of all the sites you list that you play at on your HD. If you dont know how, ask here.

Read the threads in the HH section. Same thing, ask if you dont know why people are saying things.

One thing is, in many situations, there will not be only one way to approach it, so in the HH threads you may see differing opinions. That is also good. Poker has a lot of math, but it is not an absolute science. 1+1 always equals 2, but 3 betting OOP will have different things to consider almost every time you do it.

You cannot hope to find a pat recipe that is a one-size-fits-all way to play poker.

And, to be honest, if you are ending most sessions BE or slightly down at worst, you are already doing a lot right.

Thanks. ive never looked at just breking even or loosing a lil bit to be not bad, well because i only play the micros so i cant really loose alot ne ways.

About posting HHs, to be brutaly honest right now. im nervous to post, or comment on others. i dont want to be wrong with somethiing and just end up getting critisism for my attempt at helping another.

Im allready getting some hostle comments on other posts ive made from situations wher i didnt know. or asked a question and its wrong but imm only wanting to learn and not be shsamed for it.

I would really love to start using the HH forum but i need to have some practise first or guidence as to how i should be coming forward to these scenarios.

Thanks Alot Fletch. i am going to try to start covering a few hands when everytime on on but just keep em personal untill i am getting more confidence to post here. if in the future i have ne questions regarding HHs would u mind if i PMd u for some advice as to how u would go about the hand.

Of course this isnt going to be anle to be summed up all in one night, but with the more time i put in the better i should get, hence the reason why i am turning to here. To try to get asw much help out there that there is to offer that i am capable to do.
 
Hanagis

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Hanagis, what do you do to try to improve your game?

LD1977's post doesn't seem far off.

The nanos is basically showdown poker, so just make sure you learn to value bet well and don't pay off, and you'll be fine.

what ive been doing so far is watching Videos.read some books, and alot of articles. ive alos tried to start placing players on what hand there holding, but thats only gotten me worse. ive tried to learn how to use poker equity calculator to assist me with ranges but its real difficult so ive put that down for now. Ive started to US poker Office on a daily basis now, well everytime im on the tables.

when i have a bad hand i try to go back over the plays i made to see what i could have done differently, but thats just in my head while in play. ive neer really went over my HHs, because as mentioned b4 im not sure exaclt how to comment on myself as to how to play it to become better. except for some situation s wher it woulda just been better to fold but didnt see it when playing,
and take notes of my opponents.

im hoping that this is a good example for you to have a better look into my attempts to alter my gameplay for the better. pls ask nething if ive left nething unclear.
 
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RiverOfDreamz

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I noticed you said you're having difficulty putting people on a range. To be honest, I have a hard time putting people on a range in the micros - when they'll go and call with anything. So, just bet your good hands hard, fold the trash, and weigh the pot odds and implied odds on your draws. Keep notes on people that consistently do really bizarre things.
 
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