How to lose at cash games (my cash game thread)

ComplexPlaya said:

Alright so I'm finally making a cash game thread, after declining requests for it and whatnot. I figure it may be good for me in the end.

Like orangepeeleo, I received a stake to play 50nl two weeks ago (which I had never properly grinded before). Got the whole 1000 euros up front, withdrew to rub on titties / get hookers and blow / upload it back.

The beginning has been very rough, I managed to steadily lose over 11 BI's in 10 days playing bad and tilting. After 2 of my best months in Jan-Feb I started to tilt, tilted 15 BIs @ 20nl before the stake and continued into the stake it seems.

Got it all back and more on Friday and Sat, finally started to play a bit better, however about 2BIs I had won I'll probably never get because of Entraction server crashing just then. Gotta hate that.

Today was another losing day though, I felt I played ok although some tilting during the session, almost -4BIs under EV tho that doesn't mean much, went from being 2.5 BIs up to about the same down in the end. Oh well, life. I feel I was mostly unlucky running into the top of people's ranges in lots of spots.

So right now I'm pretty much -2 BIs down, after 18.5k hands, breakeven in reality if you consider those pots when the damn server crashed.

I feel I'm almost a 50nl winning reg but not quite, sometimes I do mind blowingly fancy plays & reads pwning regs, or nice thin value bets, other times I'm making stupid call downs.

I really have to work harder on my game, find and plug my leaks, and work hard on my mental game. Easier said than done...

Couple of fun fancy played hands of the day :

BB: €56.07
UTG: €78.12
MP: €38.50
CO: €59.54
BTN: €50.00
Hero (SB): €64.99

Hero posts SB €0.25, BB posts BB €0.50

Pre Flop: (€0.75) Hero has 6<font color='black'>♠</font> 7<font color='red'>♥</font>

fold, fold, CO raises to €1.43, fold, Hero raises to €5.36, fold, CO calls €3.93

21/15 or something reg, 53 hands, folded 100% or 4/4 to 3-bets up to that point so I figured I start exploiting him. I don't normally 3-bet such a junky hand, but for people with really high fold to 3-bets any two will do until they adjust (it was my first pot with him)

Flop: (€11.22, 2 players) K<font color='black'>♣</font> 3<font color='red'>♥</font> A<font color='black'>♣</font>
Hero bets €6.50, CO calls €6.50

Oh well got called, flop seems great to cbet, not giving him a lot of Ax except perhaps AJs-AQs and sometimes AK. In this spot I'm more inclined to give him a PP, especially with his high fold to 3-bet until now.

Turn: (€24.22, 2 players) T<font color='black'>♣</font>
Hero checks, CO checks

River: (€24.22, 2 players) J<font color='black'>♣</font>
Hero bets €20.00, fold

The plan was to give up after the flop, but he decided to show me on the turn he didn't have much of a hand, at this point I'm giving him some middle strength A or K, and I don't care if he has a Q to go with them I was pretty sure he wasn't calling without a club. I knew I had to make it big though.

Hero wins €23.01

This one is actually against a 48/21/1 fish, but he goes to SD 17% so he has to be tight on the river. Cbetting here was probably bad though

BTN: €12.50
SB: €79.15
Hero (BB): €50.00
UTG: €60.30

SB posts SB €0.25, Hero posts BB €0.50

Pre Flop: (€0.75) Hero has A<font color='red'>♦</font> 5<font color='red'>♦</font>

fold, BTN raises to €1.12, SB calls €0.87, Hero raises to €4.74, fold, SB calls €3.62

Flop: (€10.60, 2 players) 8<font color='black'>♠</font> 4<font color='black'>♠</font> J<font color='red'>♦</font>
SB checks, Hero bets €6.00, SB calls €6.00

Turn: (€22.60, 2 players) 9<font color='red'>♥</font>
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (€22.60, 2 players) 7<font color='black'>♣</font>
SB checks, Hero bets €16.00, fold

Hero wins €21.47

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LuckyChippy said:

Bleh 2nd hand. When we 3bet it's for value or as a bluff. A5 is a bluff obv and we're trying to bluff a 48/21 who also has the BTN (should he think of that at all). Seems a pretty terrible spot to 3bet bluff imo.

That said congrats on the stake and I wish you well. Take maney!

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ComplexPlaya said:

I feel I'm almost a 50nl winning reg but not quite, sometimes I do mind blowingly fancy plays & reads pwning regs, or nice thin value bets, other times I'm making stupid call downs.

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ComplexPlaya said:

Thx. The 48/21 was the SB, the original raiser folded to my 3-bet. I didn't really mind the fish coming in out of position. I'd isolate him with A5s anyway, it's just a lower SPR.

Pretty bad c-bet though

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No Brainer said:

This is pretty much the point I am at atm to. Just moved up though so gotta give it some time. Good luck with the stake bro!!!

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WVHillbilly said:

Do you think you're making these plays just because you've moved up or where you doing these same thing successfully at a lower level?

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ComplexPlaya said:

...hope it sticks this time.

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WVHillbilly said:

As an investor, me too.

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ComplexPlaya said:

any comments on the hands? Hope I'm not being too maniac-ish

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WVHillbilly said:

So hard to judge those type of hands because without knowing game dynamics and such they all tend to look like spew. Given the right set of circumstances they can always be justified though.

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ramdeebam said:

Good luck in your challenge.

Who staked you if you don't mind? I see billy invested some? Can I see some of your stats please.

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WVHillbilly said:

We, the nameless faceless few.

Seriously just a group of loyalers. We are also currently staking KC and orangepeelio.

As for your question about BRM, we think 20BIs is enough for the purposes of THE STAKE. If he were to lose it all it's no loss to him so CP has nothing to lose other than his share of the profits and his time. If it were all he had and it was his own money 20BIs is pretty thin for 50nl but not terribly so imo.

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fx20736 said:

How does it work when someone is staked? At a determined point does the person being staked pay back the principle plus pct of the wins?

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WVHillbilly said:

Yes. Our agreement with CP is for 3 months and at least 75K hands.

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fx20736 said:

ok, but no requirement on win rate? You must want some ROI?

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fx20736 said:

What! You mean 3beting 76o from the SB isn't standard!

Probably explains my recent losses.

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WVHillbilly said:

We, the nameless faceless few.

Seriously just a group of loyalers. We are also currently staking KC and orangepeelio.

As for your question about BRM, we think 20BIs is enough for the purposes of THE STAKE. If he were to lose it all it's no loss to him so CP has nothing to lose other than his share of the profits and his time. If it were all he had and it was his own money 20BIs is pretty thin for 50nl but not terribly so imo.

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ramdeebam said:

Also, because someone is being staked, doesn't their level of play loosen a lot? What I mean is, if someone said to me "here's x amount of money, you have no loss regardless if you lose"

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ramdeebam said:

Don't some people just donk it all of playing really bad just hoping to double/triple up the BR quickly for a quick earner? Then if they fail, well they haven't lost anything.

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ramdeebam said:

Last thing, why do winning players request or accept being staked though? Doesn't make sense to me. If I was a decent winning player at a quite a good limit and 50nl I guess is quite a good limit to actually make some profit then why not just use their own BR and keep 100% of the winnings?

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WVHillbilly said:

Do you have a set range or set of hands that you use to 4bet light Taylor? Something to where you can ensure you keep your range balanced (say 3 value hands for every 1 bluff) without over/under doing it?

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ramdeebam said:

Good luck in your challenge.

Who staked you if you don't mind? I see billy invested some? Can I see some of your stats please.

ps: Is 20 buy-ins enough for 50nl? I mean if you lost 50% of your roll in the first couple of months then isn't it a bit dangerous or is this just an aggressive approach your taking? If so, are the stakers ok with it and I thought they might of been more comfortable staking you an extra 20 buy-ins.

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fx20736 said:

What! You mean 3beting 76o from the SB isn't standard!

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ChuckTs said:

Then again anything compared to your standard of play would probably look like other-worldly aggression/looseness.

Some of these hands are verging on spew - 5bet shoving is something that's just completely unnecessary and VERY high variance. Just a side note: if we're ever doing it, we should be choosing small suited aces. We have blockers, and the most equity possible out of any light 3betting hands when he calls. We're talking through his history in my next coaching session with him though, I'll straighten him out :boxing:

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ChuckTs said:

I don't have an exact range since obv every situation is dynamic and it would be a bit tough to memorize dozens of nuts:air ratios vs various 3bet+F4bet combos from my opponents, then figure out a set 4bet bluff range that way.

In general though I think a good plan is not to stray out of the Ax part of your range since they obviously add card removal too, and probably don't yield too high of a bluff:nuts ratio for 4betting. The more someone folds to 4bets, the more I add down the line: Kx, Qx, then sometimes there are situations where I think he's folding so much that my hand doesn't matter, and frequency isn't a problem since the situation is so unique and doesn't come up often enough to need a frequency regulator like picking Ax only.

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