How to handle loose 3 bets?

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
I recently moved up to 50NL and I am encountering players who are absolutely incessant with their 3 betting. There are players who will 3 bet their button all the time and the BB very frequently when the button opens.

Okay so the biggest problem is the button 3 bet, normally its not gigantic but we nevertheless are OOP. Now if I open with AQ in MP and the button 3 bets me what do I really do? I almost never call a 3 bet OOP with AQ but this is different as I know I am ahead or a flip most of the time but there are still a few hands that have me crushed. There are 3 different ways to approach the situation the way I see it.

1. Just fold it which sounds ridiculous given his 3 bet range.
2. Call and keep calling his c bets unless he bets too much.
3. Make a calculated 4 bet and if he calls then we are done with the hand if we don't flop anything and if he 5 bets we fold as well.

So far I have been doing the second option but I am not sure if its really the right way to go. Normally if the button doesn't hit he won't be C betting after the flop. Those lags who will keep c betting till the end will be crushed when we hit big so its okay to lose a few smaller hands to them.

Now the second problem is the BB/SB 3 betting. I toned down my blind stealing since 20 NL but yet some players would still not respect my button open and 3 bet with garbage like a one gap SC. If I open with AJ as I should be opening it on the button, what to do when a loose blind 3 bets? At the lower levels it was total suicide to call 3 bets with AJ but not in this scenario where I am ahead of over half his 3 betting range.

So far I have approached the situations by playing more loose and bluffing from time to time which does work on good solid players. But the problem is when it doesn't work its just so ridiculous it tilts the living hell out of me to stack off on a bluff. And really I feel even at 50 NL the general level of play is such that people are still somewhat calling stations so I dont want bluffing to be an integral part of my game at this level.

Is this just supposed to be one big guessing game or one can really formulate a set strategy for these situations? I made an incredible start to 50 NL but today blew 2 buy ins bluffing into regs so I really want to move forward with a clear head before I blow away the rest of my winnings.

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
A

ariolis30

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Total posts
86
Chips
0
option 1 4 bet light and barrel 1/2 pot on any flop lol option 2 snap ship option 3 flat and donk flop!!! hahaha honestly though at 50 people dont disguise there hands very well. develop an image and exploit. doesnt take too long to get some solid regs to go out of line. just observe be patient and print monies GG
 
C

chauncey274

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Total posts
59
Chips
0
The best thing you can do is use table selection and look for spots where there aren't lag's on your left. You want to play them in position. I'm not saying to be a coward or that they can't be exploited, but it's going to be a much easier time for you if you have a tag or fish on your left. Going to battle with a lag, out of position, even if you are good at it, is going to be a high variance, tough situation.

Other than that, I'd look for clues. Is he always three betting the same amount? Is he only three betting 2-3bb raises and doesn't 3-bet 4bb raises? What percentage is he three betting from the button? Is he only doing it to me because I have a crazy "fold to three bet" stat?

Also, how big are the three bets? if he is making large three bets then don't call too lightly. Wait for a quality hand and call his bet or 4-bet him. If he's three betting low, say you bet 3bb and he 3 bet to 6bb, it's probably better to call and play post flop. if you 4 bet, unless you're willing to 4 bet large, he's probably calling because he's in position.
 
T

thatgreekdude

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Total posts
1,024
Awards
1
Chips
1
i'd 4bet, it's hard to play OOP and you always want to have the momentum in terms of betting, also calling doesn't really help us narrow down his range and we're basically just hoping we flop a pair otherwise we have no idea where we are in the hand and we end up calling down 1-2 streets. Pre if we get 5bet we let it go, if called we should be cbetting a lot of boards.
 
LD1977

LD1977

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Total posts
3,091
Chips
0
Against a decent BTN you can't do much OOP. He has the right to defend his BTN :) I never saw anyone 3bet 100% though, max is usually something like 10%.

As for the blinds, I like mixing 4betting light (Axs hands that can't call), 4betting premiums, folding (garbage) and calling (speculative). If stacks are deep then I sometimes call with Axs too, preferably A2s-A5s.

Basically if you are IP he will have a hard time, no need to worry much.
 
Sheepodog

Sheepodog

Legend
Platinum Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Total posts
1,313
Awards
42
US
Chips
15
4bet...the best defense against a loose aggressive player is to push back...as often as possible.(says the Loose Aggr SheepoDONK!!)
 
L

luckyhearts

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Total posts
299
Chips
0
AQ not a hand you want to defend excessively....maybe call and bet the flop without looking!

I am writing a book on how to lose with aces every time if you want further advice.:rolleyes:
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Total posts
1,190
Chips
0
OOP against a guy who knows yur game you are forced to tighten up a bit and 4B a bit more.

4B top and bottom of your range and don't get pulled into just flatting a lot more.

Flatting a ton of 3B OOP is just BAD. Think about it fundamentally, you are building a big pot OOP without the lead in the hand.

That cannot be good.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Total posts
1,039
Chips
0
Is this just supposed to be one big guessing game or one can really formulate a set strategy for these situations?

Well i don't think there is a particular strategy but there are multiple strategies and you have to guess the right one to implement. You mentioned 3 of them yourself in your question in points fashion. You just have to pick the right one for the right player or moment. So in a sense it can be a guessing game - yes.:rolleyes:
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
Man playing poker against someone who is as good as you or better is so stressful. I suppose ABC poker only really works till 20NL.

Playing a 50NL table full of regs just feels like pure gambling.

Do you suppose I should transform my game a bit? I don't 3 bet much even on the button so that can be a start? I don't defend blinds much and I am still not quite sure about it. I only defend my blind against a rabid SB stealer.

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Total posts
1,190
Chips
0
Man playing poker against someone who is as good as you or better is so stressful. I suppose ABC poker only really works till 20NL.

Playing a 50NL table full of regs just feels like pure gambling.

Do you suppose I should transform my game a bit? I don't 3 bet much even on the button so that can be a start? I don't defend blinds much and I am still not quite sure about it. I only defend my blind against a rabid SB stealer.

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk

Just so you know....at say, 25NL, lots of people are going to see this on a HUD and just target you to death. The days of ABC poker just winning/crushing even at low limit online poker are way behind us.
 
C

Cymro

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Total posts
53
Chips
0
I think picking a seat where the maniac is to your right is probably the best option. If you come up against them too regularly for that, I think the only thing you can do is start re-raising them All-In with anything decent and be fearless about it. You might run into a better hand occasionally, but they'll have to realise eventually that it's not a good play against you. Use their own tactic against them.
 
weldphaser

weldphaser

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Total posts
199
Chips
0
4b light, flat a coupke 3b here and ther and if your oop put pressure on him with a small maybe 1/4 pot br bro
 
Blu2323

Blu2323

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Total posts
23
Chips
0
This is a really good question and it can be hard to give you a solid answer because of the variance in the types of players you can come up against. AQ is one of those trouble hands that feel stronger than they really are, so I can see why you would have mixed feelings about making to many moves with it preflop but I think the best answer is to 4 bet fold. There are just not to many players that are going to be 5 betting you with less then the goods. But really look at the player you are going against. If you feel like they playing to aggressive yes the 4 bet will work a lot. If say you have the tightest of the tight player 3beting you, well you might just want to flat to see if you can out play them or use a scary board against their tight nature.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
So I have been relentlessly 4 betting my button and its been working great so far. Obviously I am going to get called or shoved sometimes and that's where I would need to exercise discipline.

It would be interesting to see how some of the regs are going to react after they notice this change. Maybe they are gonna bog down on 3 betting my button.

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk
 
B

bnasp2

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Total posts
606
Chips
0
Its important that those LAGs are not close to your left. When he is on button, you will always be OOP.
But if there are some players between you two, then his button and BB means you are on early position. From that, you are much less likely to bet and thus need to think about his 3-bet. And if you enter from EP and he is still 3-betting light, then you should have hand for some big big 4-bet.
You can even spice it with some balancing, opening some bluffs from EP and 4-bet then.

If you really want to play that table, and you have such player on left hand:
- tighten your range for his button, but also balance it (only best hands + couple of nice bluffs, like 56s)
- increase size of bet
- be ready to 4-bet a lot and c-bet a lot
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top