How do you combat a villian who steals a lot and..

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bustmethods

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How do you combat a villian who steals a lot and rarely folds to a 3bet? I've seen a couple regs who are 20/10/2 and 22/16/2 who both steal about 40% and only fold to a 3bet from the blind 25-33% of the time. Seems like they are stealing a lot of blinds and willing to call with a wide range of hands to take the pot away later when in position.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Generally give them your blinds and tighten up your 3bet range so that it include no bluff 3bets. Then use their aggressiveness in 3bet pots against them postflop. Basically don't build a big pot preflop against them if you're generally going to be giving it up postflop. You can probably expand your value 3bet range a bit but remember you want a hand you're willing to play a big pot with postflop.
 
blueskies

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This is a problem I come across often.

Let's say I have AK on BB and BTN raises to 3xBB. I repop him to 10xBB. He calls. Flop comes 378.

I bet, he calls. Turn comes a 4.

Now what? All I have is 2 overcards. He is not crediting me for an overpair and knows that I probably missed the flop. If he's the kind of guy who has such a wide range and will call me down with any pair/draw and is capable of firing a bluff at any time to steal. What do I do?

So against guys like these I usually just shove with a strong hand except for QQ+.
 
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PotluckXXI

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Those guys suck, especially in PLO, WV is right and don't get married to a hand. When you have position and a strong hand (say set or top two pair) slowplay the flop and dig in on the turn. Don't bluff micro players unless you know their play, always hit them hard when you make a straight or flush, they will sometimes fold but they will also call (or raise) with 2 pair or set.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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1st make it 12x (at least) preflop. This guy's problem is he calls to much so charge him for it.

There is no rule that says you have to cbet every flop in a 3bet pot (I'd still likely cbet the one you described if I think he's fold most of his misses). So just look at the flop texture and think of how well it connects with your opponents range and then cbet or check (lean toward cbetting). Also remember there is little need to cbet large in 3bet pots (whether you've hit or missed) since we can generally get AI if we want to even with a small (relative to the pot) flop bet.
 
WVHillbilly

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Those guys suck, especially in PLO, WV is right and don't get married to a hand. When you have position and a strong hand (say set or top two pair) slowplay the flop and dig in on the turn. Don't bluff micro players unless you know their play, always hit them hard when you make a straight or flush, they will sometimes fold but they will also call (or raise) with 2 pair or set.
Don't EVER slowplay any flop against this type of opponent. These guys call lots of cbets so when you hit they'll still be calling. If they're aggressive enough you can check the turn but generally just go bet/bet/bet.
 
jbbb

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This is a problem I come across often.

Let's say I have AK on BB and BTN raises to 3xBB. I repop him to 10xBB. He calls. Flop comes 378.

I bet, he calls. Turn comes a 4.

This is where better hand reading skills help and analysing flops helps. Also the more you play with a player the more you can develop your 3bet range and c-beting ranges.
For example if he hits a 3784 board he's going to be calling more marginal hands (eg. JT, 8T, 67, 78) etc which is good for you because the hands have less post flop equity vs. your 3bet range and when he calls you should have an edge.
Also try not to 3b OOP. If he only steals from the BTN i'd generally let him have it more often than not, but i'd call very liberally out of BB if he's SB and also 3b a lot wider (unpolarized) to play IP vs. his weakish 3b-calling range.
 
bgomez89

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Generally give them your blinds and tighten up your 3bet range so that it include no bluff 3bets. Then use their aggressiveness in 3bet pots against them postflop. Basically don't build a big pot preflop against them if you're generally going to be giving it up postflop. You can probably expand your value 3bet range a bit but remember you want a hand you're willing to play a big pot with postflop.

Shouldn't we change our 3bet range from polarized to depolarized here?
 
WVHillbilly

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Shouldn't we change our 3bet range from polarized to depolarized here?
I think I said that.
"tighten up your 3bet range so that it includes no bluff 3bets" and "expand your value 3bet range a bit "

I just hate the terms polarize/depolarize. Way overused by people who have no clue what they're saying.
 
blueskies

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Is shoving OOP against a player like this a good move?
 
WVHillbilly

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Is shoving OOP against a player like this a good move?
You mean shoving as a 3bet??? So we only get called when we're crushed? Probably better to learn to play a bit OOP don't you think?
 
PC69

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These simple discussions where there is something to be learned and actually sometimes reminded because we already learned that, make me miss this forum. It really is one of a kind.
 
darkassassin89

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I think I said that.
"tighten up your 3bet range so that it includes no bluff 3bets" and "expand your value 3bet range a bit "

I just hate the terms polarize/depolarize. Way overused by people who have no clue what they're saying.

like me :) i think of north and south poles haha
 
darkassassin89

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oh oho hoh ohoohooh BEST tip EVER!!! ( well works wonders for me) If you are OOP Snap check the flop ( unless you have a sick hand and its a drawy board then of course bet ) snap checking the flop puts you in POSITON for 1 round and if you always do this, they will technically be OOP if the assume you do this with the nuts, or air everytime. ( more of a HU tip here since thats my game ) Trust me, when tbeing IN position and haveing to act 1st it throws off many players game ( again bet if you have a good hand vs this guy on a draw heavy board so he cant check for a free card) this is just 1 way to start learning to play OOP and still not be at a total dis advantage. Main downside, you give them 1 free card. But you get a free card too if you look at both sides :D

Edit: and lets you check raise more often :D this should make HIGH VPIP% players fold more often too.
 
bgomez89

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I think I said that.
"tighten up your 3bet range so that it includes no bluff 3bets" and "expand your value 3bet range a bit "

I just hate the terms polarize/depolarize. Way overused by people who have no clue what they're saying.

oh lol completely missed the expand you value range part. Carry on
 
blueskies

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You mean shoving as a 3bet??? So we only get called when we're crushed? Probably better to learn to play a bit OOP don't you think?

If he's the type who'll call with stuff like AT, KQsuited, etc.
 
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think about it, if villain calls too many 3-bets, do you want to 3-bet him with 97s, A2o or KQs?
 
WVHillbilly

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oh lol completely missed the expand you value range part. Carry on
No problem. I just think if I had said depolarize your 3bet range a lot of people reading the thread wouldn't have really understood what I meant.
 
Stu_Ungar

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No problem. I just think if I had said depolarize your 3bet range a lot of people reading the thread wouldn't have really understood what I meant.

Just depolarize or should we also merge?
 
bgomez89

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we should use all 3 ranges if we decide to merge imo
 
WVHillbilly

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Triple range merge? I think the triple lindy is more likely!

 
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