How to deal with guys betting big and hard on every street and often?

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ChipMountain

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What is the best way to deal with guys who bet and raise often, preflop and post flop on every street? Where do I want to be sitting in congruence with them? They usually go with me no matter what their cards are, so do s that mean I have to put them hem in a position to call my entire stack when I read them to be weak, or when I believe to be ahead? Thoughts??
 
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braveslice

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Well what is your vpip/pfr?
 
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ChipMountain

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Well what is your vpip/pfr?



Sooo I don't know what mine is, it being live I'm not able to track those two stats. I just learned what they meant a few days ago, but thinking back fairly low when just buying in. When I'm up about 3 buy-ins a bit larger. Theirs is really high, but it's to calculate exacts because it's live and I don't k ow how to do that.
 
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braveslice

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Oh it's live, then the answer to your question is a bit different than I thought ;). Our live players can give the better answer here.
 
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TCashMoney19

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What is the best way to deal with guys who bet and raise often, preflop and post flop on every street? Where do I want to be sitting in congruence with them? They usually go with me no matter what their cards are, so do s that mean I have to put them hem in a position to call my entire stack when I read them to be weak, or when I believe to be ahead? Thoughts??

First off, I would tell you to make sure you're playing within a bankroll. If you're properly rolled for 200NL live, the minimum you should have in a bankroll is around $4k. This bankroll is to make sure that you can play big hands like this without taking much of a financial hit. If you're playing with money that's too important or you're not willing to lose, then you're playing "scared money" and will not be making correct decisions at the poker table. Which is putting you at a disadvantage.

In terms of how to deal with these players, if you can, always try to sit to their left or "in position". Nothing is more annoying than having a guy raise and reraise you in position all the time. Second, tighten your opening range. If someone is 3betting you preflop a lot, from any position, and you keep opening too loose and have to fold to 3bets a lot then it's a leak in your game. Also, consider light 4betting depending on stack sizes if they are really that aggro. Some players just 3bet knowing most people won't call or reraise without a nutted hand live, which makes it the perfect time to 4bet with a hand like JTs or 89s. However, I wouldn't get into a habit of this in live games, as it's only very rarely applicable and most of the time when someone three bets you it's normally a strong hand.

If the guy who is betting big and often on every street is doing it often, chances are he doesn't always have it. Sure sometimes someone will literally just be running that hot, but most of the time these players know that most other players will play fit or fold post flop and unless they flop big they won't fight back the vast majority of the time. So, you have to consider your range of hands and just simply not fold the top of your range to a super aggro opponent (i.e. top pair good kicker, TPTK, two pairs on certain boards, etc). Sometimes you just have to take a stand against a table bully and just call them down with your strong hands, and if they get there/suck out on you, then whatever it's poker. Folding everything but the nuts or a super super strong hand (i.e. set, straight, etc) is very exploitable and there are some players who will take advantage of players that will always fold top pair to a high amount of aggression. Again, this is all about your read on the opponnent (i.e. is he just running hot or is he just trying to run everyone over). I could give you more specific advice if you gave me more information, but right now, this is generally how I combat LAGtards and it's worked out well for me so far. Sure sometimes they flip over the nuts and stack me, but most of the time they'll just donk their money off with 8 high because they can't think I can call with top pair to their line.
 
ByronP

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I do not want to be rude but your opponent does not think you can play at all. If he is willing to fight you with any cards and just bullies you every chance he has. He thinks that you will always fold to his aggression. I am sure he does it from any position. My recommendation would be not to wait any longer, when you get cards you want to play go with them. Do not let him bully you any more. Stand up for yourself
 
Pbland

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Definitely want him on your right. Next, you have to be playing with money you can afford to lose. You're playing with what sounds like a basic maniac. In these situations I will play my good hands hard, all-in to his raises. Just can't let him control you, so you have to fight back hard. As long as you're playing sound poker, you'll do okay.
 
AceSticker

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How I deal with big betters: if i have good cards, i let them bet and try to "trap them", and not have a raising battle with them.
 
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stokedog4

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TCashMoney has some great points. Especially the point about the bankroll! Scared money, don't make money.

If he's the only one at the table doing this then yes you can let him do the betting... however in my experience you cannot just pinpoint one person to play at a table.. You'll lose sight of other players (weak spots, nits,) where you can make money.

And not to mention when you just call his pre flop raise, and 3 others join in (no good).
To combat this, say he's on your right and he opens, you need to 3bet to iso this fish... Doesn't mean you have to get it aipf, but you can then let use the ole rope-a-dope heads up against a lag fish....
 
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JDSmithinger

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With decent hands that hit the flop, I just call, call, call. If I have a monster or really good draws (OESD and FD for example) I'll try to get it all in on the flop. Their aggression is exploitable, and especially live it'll really put them in check and give you a huge psychological edge if you get to show down with a strong hand.

You have to be willing to lose the money though (have the BR as others have mentioned) when they do suck out, but you're tighter calling range vs their super aggro multi-street betting is +EV for you all the way. These are some of my favorite spots.
 
vadimknyshov

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You mast wait for a good hand, then calls his bets and
punish the villains)
 
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illind

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Be patient wait for the nuts or a really strong hand and bust him. Sometimes even a pair will do!
 
Aces2w1n

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Are they just targetting you? or are they going big a lot of hands and show on river
 
Ezekiel162

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Nothing to say except TCashMoney19 summed it up beautifully...
 
Fenix7

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It is best to analyze your Ranking of hands and how he has been playing and Most Importantly play against them only when we have a reason to play the hand.
 
nutthink

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wait a good card and good position (you act first after calling his raise from pre floop then yo act first after the floop) go all in if he fold may he wont risk his chips on you anymore.. just my opinion
 
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Ficomkd

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that kind of players just want to be secure that the oother players is playing good cards i u reraise he will fold imediatly he is only checking what hand have others but be careful maybe u will get a good hand when he get monster so u must be careful with that kind of players my advice is check\call
 
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oMONSTERo

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is he only targeting you or does this player do this all the time? Would it make any sense to have this type of player on your left? Since he is doing this every time if he's on your left when he re raises you, you'll know how every other player is going to act before you pull the trigger. I find it sucks if he's on your right and you pull the trigger and someone else behind you has a monster. I may be totally wrong in my thinking, so would love to hear from some of the better players.
 
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oMONSTERo

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it seems like my thinking was that of everyone before me just worded differently. I have an inner ear infection so must not be registering the info I'm reading. Maybe I should not play poker until it gets better. lol
good luck at the tables
 
Masi2197

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Depending on your stad deal with this class of players is difficult because even if you have a strong hand a good bet will make you doubt, do not be surprised that you lose a good hand with a trash hand ...
 
milka1605

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Just wait a good map and beat ego.Est another opportunity. Reciprocate. But since you will lose the stack quickly.
 
Dorugremon

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What is the best way to deal with guys who bet and raise often, preflop and post flop on every street? Where do I want to be sitting in congruence with them? They usually go with me no matter what their cards are, so do s that mean I have to put them hem in a position to call my entire stack when I read them to be weak, or when I believe to be ahead? Thoughts??

You deal with this player the same as any other player: you get a line on their play, determine what their range looks like, and play accordingly.

With a maniac, you want to be sitting behind him and have position on him most of the time. You also need to be ready to throw some light 3! and 4! at him.

Last session I played I had just such a player ahead of me. I'd seen him put in a big 3! with (8d,6d) and dog pocket rockets. I picked up pocket 4's not too long after that, and opened for 3XBB. He 3! and I raised the pot. He called. Flop comes down (Q,rag,rag) and he checked it. I lead off 18BB into an 18BB pot. He tank, folded.

You'll have to take some chances, and never forget that, just because he's aggro -- or even a flat-out whacko -- doesn't mean he can't pick up aces or some other Premium. In that last session, I knew pocket fours was pretty much a coin-flip. He could have 3! with another mid-suited connector and binked a bigger pair than fours. If he could raise with (8d,6d) he could raise with (Q, anything). If he had, he'd call and I'd probably lose. Regardless, I made the right play to both get value from a hand that normally wouldn't be worth much beyond the steal and hitting a set, and to shut him down.

Another thing to consider is if he can change it up. That opponent from last night was doing that, and I happened to be dealt a playable hand when he was splashing around. Indeed, he tried to trap me later, and I avoided it because I already knew he had nitted it up.

Observe, observe, observe; never assume that they're playing this orbit the way you saw them play three orbits ago. They usually do -- fish is as fish does -- but beware of those who can change it up on you. In Poker, assumptions can be damned expensive.
 
A

abitrandom82

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Play back. Check raise light and lead off turn. Play back back
Door draws and make it seem believable with bet sizing. Don't stack off, value bet convincingly. What works is timing.. take ur time when you bet - drives
People crazy and you can get a better vibe
As to what he has.
This is poker, if you are treated like a bitch, then you are certainly a bird.
 
eueu

eueu

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When you have very strong hands, go with them all.
 
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uready4dis

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Just wait until you get good cards and good flops, can always trap them.
 
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