How to combat the fish - schooling

Schooling = "Phenomenon where a group of poor players acting in the same hand can make their actions become less bad."

This has got to be the worst situation in poker and I`m sure we all come across it on a regular basis.

To the more experienced players - how do u combat this?

A few examples of how bad it is

Your pocket Aces. v one opponent u r about 5:1 fav

Same hand and 4 callers = just over 2:3

Same hand and full table (10 callers) u r about 1:5 - even a pair of 10`s in this senario is only about 1:6.

I know this is an extreme, but does this mean that if u r the best player in the World, sitting at a full table of people pushing all in every hand u would never have an edge worth talking about.

I`m only playing but what do you think?

I ran across a table like this yesterday. I was the small blind in a full family pot, everybody had limped. Besides the fact that my pot odds to call were astounding, I was also gonna be first to act.

I had purposely avoided the exact same situation earlier with AQor AJ, knowing it would likely get too hairy to continue.

But in this case I took my sooted 10-5 in, and hit the flushed flop. First to act with only a 10 hi I did not want any more action, so I potted it, and it was amazing to watch 8 or 9 players fold in succession. I got to thinking that had I been last to act or late to act, and anyone had made a play at that pot, even with my flush I would have had to lay it down.

Lesson; maybe position concepts get turned on their heads in big family pots. Maybe first in 'vigorish' becomes more important in a family pot.

Ronaldadio said:

Schooling = "Phenomenon where a group of poor players acting in the same hand can make their actions become less bad."

This has got to be the worst situation in poker and I`m sure we all come across it on a regular basis.

To the more experienced players - how do u combat this?

A few examples of how bad it is

Your pocket Aces. v one opponent u r about 5:1 fav

Same hand and 4 callers = just over 2:3

Same hand and full table (10 callers) u r about 1:5 - even a pair of 10`s in this senario is only about 1:6.

I know this is an extreme, but does this mean that if u r the best player in the World, sitting at a full table of people pushing all in every hand u would never have an edge worth talking about.

I`m only playing but what do you think?

Click to expand...

I started out playing limit poker. Low limit 2/4, 3/6, 5/10 live games. In these games family pots happen once an orbit. Four to seven callers is the norm. I know what it's like to raise UTG with KK and have eight people call you. I feel your pain!

The game isn't about winning pots though. It's about winning money. You make money from your opponents making mistakes not your cards.

Try raising UTG with AA and having the whole table fold!

Your pocket Aces. v one opponent u r about 5:1 fav

Same hand and 4 callers = just over 2:3

Same hand and full table (10 callers) u r about 1:5 - even a pair of 10`s in this senario is only about 1:6.

Click to expand...

Yes, but in the example you gave where the whole tables calls (where you're a 1:5 underdog to the rest of the field) there's also 10 times as much money in the pot. So while your variance increases, you're still in a situation with a positive expectation.

Schooling is more of a problem in limit games, where the bets are smaller.

Your problem is that you are thinking about poker as a goal of winning pots instead of winning money. In other words, even though your aces are no longer an overall favorite to win, when they DO win you will get more than enough money to compensate for all the previous pot losses. It's called equity.

See schooling myth articles here.

mannnn if you have pocket aces you have to make sure that there arnt so many ppl in the hand! thats the job of pocket aces!! but you dont want the ppl to know that you have aces with a huge raise... so raise how you would normally with an ace jack or something and hopefully youll get a flop like 2 7 T... that way you raise big which looks like a bluff, the person rreraises you, and you get paid off .

I just sat down an hour ago at a fish pond and lost 5 dollars. I would raise with AKs and get called by 5 players and then by the time it was my turn to bet someone would go all in for two dollars on a flop of 29J rainbow and had to fold. I basically played my hands like I should have and got beat. I hate it, but I guess that's poker.

In tables like this if I have AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AQs I raise 10BB(or more) or go all-in to reduce the players, with other good hands I just call in later position and bet if flop is good for me. In other situations I fold.
If you be patient you'll win great pots.

get it all in with big hands only. the biggest mistake i see people make against lag push bots is to widen their hand range. Once u do that they wake up with AA or KK.

Raise just about every hand you play. Never just call. Raise, RERAISE, or fold. RERAISING in particular does a nice job of dropping off the competition between you and the original raiser.

I agree that to combat a loose raiser, you shouldn't increase your hand range too much. However, you should absolutely increase the hands you RERAISE with. If he's raising a lot of hands, try to develop a raising range for him and 3-bet him with any hand you get that beats that range.