How big should I allow my stack to get?

Jreece18 · Feb 1, 2016

I've read a lot of advice that the bigger your stack the better, which I partly agree with, however certain cases make me question this. If the majority of the weaker players are all playing around 100bb's and the only other player with a stack similar to yours of say, 300bb is another reg, is it even advantageous? I personally don't like stacking off 300bb's too light and deep stack poker seems to play quite differently. Would this not put me at a disadvantage? I only really feel comfortable with a stack of around 200bb's if I'm playing with another reg or decent player.

lukeellul92 · Feb 7, 2016

What do you mean? You let it get as big as you can!

However, I think what you're trying to say is, how big do you let it get before you cash out? Yes?

Well, I heard a really good answer to this commonly asked question, the answer was given by Jason Somerville. If you don't know him, then look him up!

This is pretty paraphrased and not word for word, but you get the idea:

If you're making all the right decisions and correcting your leaks etc, it doesnt matter how big your stack is getting, as long as you're getting it in good and doing everything right, then you should be at that table until you start making too many mistakes from fatigue / being tired or you yourself think you've had enough.
Poker is a long-term game, and you can get it in good %100 of the time and lose on the river etc or just get bad beats.
When this happens and you lose, people tend to get annoyed and say "damn, I should've left when I was up"

Well, yeah, but you made the right decisions, the right play, got it in good and lost? Thats poker and thats math, but over the long term you're going to be in profit through this play, and that's what you want.

TimovieMan · Feb 7, 2016

I build my stack to infinity if I feel the table is profitable.

If you have another reg that's as good or better than you at the table with a similar deep stack as you, then just be careful about picking fights with him. Focus on the other players instead.

And remember, if you're the deepest stack on the table, you're only playing for your opponent's stack sizes, not yours.

starting_at_the_bottom · Feb 7, 2016

Jreece18 said:
I personally don't like stacking off 300bb's too light

Hmm, heres an idea......

Dont stack off too light 300bbs deep.

Never thought of that eh?

J L Duncan · Feb 7, 2016

Snip...

Jreece18 said:
I only really feel comfortable with a stack of around 200bb's if I'm playing with another reg or decent player.

You answered your own question sir!

theevildub · Feb 8, 2016

It just depends. You just need to realize that if you buy in for $100 and everyone else at the table has $1000 ... once your heads up with someone, you will be playing for 100% of your stack, and your opponent will only be playing for 10% of his. Thats where the disadvantage comes in.

At the same time ... if you buy in for $1000 but you usually only play for $100 ... there's a good chance you will lose it all, which is NEVER good.

I usually buy in for around $200 ... then once i get up to around $550, i just change tables. Then when i buy in to a new game for $200 again, i already made $150 profit for the day (guaranteed). If i start to get bad cards, then i can go cash out the $200 i bought in for, and i made $350 for the day. Of course, if im killing it at the 2nd table, i grind it out to $550 again, and repeat the process.

Every time i buy in for $200, and i build a stack to around $800 or $1000 .... i start to make riskier calls because i feel that i have so many chips i can take more chances. I also get into situations where i already have $150 or so into a pot, and im pretty much forced to call another $100 or so on the river. Every now and then, ill flop top set, go all in, and lose to runner runner flush/straight, or some other stupid hand. So by taking my PROFIT off the table, im locking in my winnings, and guaranteeing a winning day. Its not like a tournament where you need the biggest stack to win. Sure its fun to look at a mountain of chips .. but its also changes your perception of where you are at.

But thats just me & im a donk =D

Good Luck.

CharlieWest · Feb 9, 2016

Great variety of responses here, thanks folks! Hopefully, I'll find myself in such a situation some day!

JustBeatIt · Feb 12, 2016

Great question and some really helpful responses, i always wonder this myself. I can see both sides of it, feeling comfortable playing with a deep stack definitely seems advantageous. I can also see the get out while its going good idea of cashing out ahead, but if you plan to play again and dont find as easy of a table then it could have been more advantageous to stay and just avoid the people you are unsure of until you figure it out more.

6bet me · Feb 14, 2016

theevildub said:
Every time i buy in for $200, and i build a stack to around $800 or $1000 .... i start to make riskier calls because i feel that i have so many chips i can take more chances. I also get into situations where i already have $150 or so into a pot, and im pretty much forced to call another $100 or so on the river. Every now and then, ill flop top set, go all in, and lose to runner runner flush/straight, or some other stupid hand. So by taking my PROFIT off the table, im locking in my winnings, and guaranteeing a winning day.

This is your problem. You treat poker as a game of "protecting your winnings", not a game of maximising EV. If you're ever concerned about protecting your winnings, that means you're playing too high stakes or out of your comfort zone. Drop down to a stake you can handle. If you get your money in as a 60% favourite (top set vs flush draw), then you should be happy. If you're not happy taking those chances with deep stacks, then drop down to a lower stake.

I've won so much by allowing myself to get deep-stacked against fish. I've stacked off 300bb deep with AA vs AKo preflop. I've stacked off 300bb deep with a boat vs flush on the river. When you find fishy players that think that a hand worth 100bb is a hand worth 300bb, you can really take advantage of that and win huge pots (or at least get your money in as a favourite to win).

The deeper the stacks, the more skill is involved and the less luck is involved. If you're a winning player and you're properly rolled for the stakes you're playing, then you should love to play deep-stacked. Why get 100bb in as a 60% favourite (EV of +20bb) when you can get 500bb in as a 60% favourite (EV of +100bb)?

Vfranks · Feb 14, 2016

starting_at_the_bottom said:
Hmm, heres an idea......

Dont stack off too light 300bbs deep.

Never thought of that eh?

This made me LOL, thanks

.

theevildub said:
It just depends. You just need to realize that if you buy in for $100 and everyone else at the table has $1000 ... once your heads up with someone, you will be playing for 100% of your stack, and your opponent will only be playing for 10% of his. Thats where the disadvantage comes in.

At the same time ... if you buy in for $1000 but you usually only play for $100 ... there's a good chance you will lose it all, which is NEVER good.

I usually buy in for around $200 ... then once i get up to around $550, i just change tables. Then when i buy in to a new game for $200 again, i already made $150 profit for the day (guaranteed). If i start to get bad cards, then i can go cash out the $200 i bought in for, and i made $350 for the day. Of course, if im killing it at the 2nd table, i grind it out to $550 again, and repeat the process.

Every time i buy in for $200, and i build a stack to around $800 or $1000 .... i start to make riskier calls because i feel that i have so many chips i can take more chances. I also get into situations where i already have $150 or so into a pot, and im pretty much forced to call another $100 or so on the river. Every now and then, ill flop top set, go all in, and lose to runner runner flush/straight, or some other stupid hand. So by taking my PROFIT off the table, im locking in my winnings, and guaranteeing a winning day. Its not like a tournament where you need the biggest stack to win. Sure its fun to look at a mountain of chips .. but its also changes your perception of where you are at.

But thats just me & im a donk =D

Good Luck.

Matthew Southall said:
This is your problem. You treat poker as a game of "protecting your winnings", not a game of maximising EV. If you're ever concerned about protecting your winnings, that means you're playing too high stakes or out of your comfort zone. Drop down to a stake you can handle. If you get your money in as a 60% favourite (top set vs flush draw), then you should be happy. If you're not happy taking those chances with deep stacks, then drop down to a lower stake.

I've won so much by allowing myself to get deep-stacked against fish. I've stacked off 300bb deep with AA vs AKo preflop. I've stacked off 300bb deep with a boat vs flush on the river. When you find fishy players that think that a hand worth 100bb is a hand worth 300bb, you can really take advantage of that and win huge pots (or at least get your money in as a favourite to win).

The deeper the stacks, the more skill is involved and the less luck is involved. If you're a winning player and you're properly rolled for the stakes you're playing, then you should love to play deep-stacked. Why get 100bb in as a 60% favourite (EV of +20bb) when you can get 500bb in as a 60% favourite (EV of +100bb)?

I agree. One thing I've learned around here and other strategy articles is that poker is a long term game. You should never be thinking about winnings for one day, rather look to be winning in the long term and always making +EV decisions. We shouldn't be focusing one one session's results, or one days results, but should be focusing on the results over the long term like a month, 6months, or a year.

wildyetty · Feb 14, 2016

when you have a stack like that just dont turn into a calling station playing every mediocre hand, that just takes your table image from having good hands to being a fish and ya all the small stacks will attempt to make plays on you.... the trick is when you have a stack like that is stay away from multiway pots and just go into steal mode. There is no real sense trying to get bigger cause when it comes down to it the blinds at the final table will probabbly only give you 100 bbs on a great day 50 is more realistic

Vfranks · Feb 14, 2016

wildyetty said:
when you have a stack like that just dont turn into a calling station playing every mediocre hand, that just takes your table image from having good hands to being a fish and ya all the small stacks will attempt to make plays on you.... the trick is when you have a stack like that is stay away from multiway pots and just go into steal mode. There is no real sense trying to get bigger cause when it comes down to it the blinds at the final table will probabbly only give you 100 bbs on a great day 50 is more realistic

Were talking about cash games, this is the cash game strategy section after all.

wildyetty · Feb 14, 2016

Vfranks said:
Were talking about cash games, this is the cash game strategy section after all.

oops sorry didnt notice

TheBigFinn · Feb 15, 2016

An interesting question and a quality problem. Like all things in poker it depends. Personally, if I am winning and have a good table imagine I don't care about the stack size AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT AFFECT my play.

If I stack a couple of the punters and have an aggressive, huge stack reg on my left it affects my game and I'll change tables.

Same guy on my right and I play all night.

IMHO you should play a little looser after you have won a big stack and the other players saw you do it showing down good hands. Not so much if they saw you suck out with loose play.

Hunterholliday · Feb 15, 2016

so im a fan of tripling my stack and then getting up and sitting back down at the same table...if im playing so well that i triple up I dont want freak luck to take it off of me. yea you have to work with a smaller stack and once you sit back down to the table, but remember...your crushing this table. and a crappy call/out wont demolish your winnings for the day and if you do get stacked then youare still up!

i also dont feel so comfortable with 3 times the max buy in or more because i start to get ****y and make looser calls like your the big stack in a tournament or something. check out....ground yourself back down to the other players levels and start the process over...yea you MAY lose out on doubling up with a good hand...but it also reduces your variance the wrong way if you get a run of bad cards

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How big should I allow my stack to get?

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