How beatable are microstake cash games

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theresets

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From what I've heard they might not be beatable at all. People say the rake for them is just too high, so how is a new player supposed to learn how to beat the cash games if you can't learn at micro stakes and move up as you improve because you always end up busto?
 
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bnasp2

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Well, its not boom of poker anymore. There is not enough total newbies depositing and trying to bust their 10$ on micro cash games. All people there have at least basic skills, plus there are many micro-grinders and studying people. You cannot expect to beat that after 3-4 hours of reading basic strategies.
At everywhere, you will need more hard work and patience then the others to beat them (or great talent).
 
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braveslice

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At least regular 2NL should be easy enough to play if you already know the basic rules and how fish play (we all did ;) ). I played zynka flash poker before so I knew the hand strenght and stuff like that. Starting to make profit took 6k hands and the whole career there lasted 180 hours with 65 dollar profit, 22bb/100. Can you make profit in play money games?; I think that’s the minimum to make money in money tables, even though the games differ a lot.

Reading one good book from cover to cover helps too, because even though you don't really learn much, you get the most important concepts at least in idea level. So later they are easier to learn.
 
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ekgbeat

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What do you mean by "beatable"? Are you trying to make a living at micros, or just use it as a learning tool. As others have said, the boom is over so unless you are living in a third world country, you can't make a living at the micros, IMO.

As a learning tool, micro stakes are "beatable". There are a lot of poker streamers and forum posters that have started micro stake challenges, and a few have completed them. Doug Polk is a good one to follow that is currently trying to complete one.
 
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Dan Lucas

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I think you have to have great discipline at micro stakes to make financial progress. You have to have a big enough bankroll so you don't bust yourself when variance hits, but you have to make sure you don't underestimate your opponents and bust yourself out by being too arrogant. Take notes and try to identify the wild players who are willing to put it all in with marginal hands. And don't get greedy. Stick to your bankroll and don't go for the big win. If it comes, great, but don't expect it.
 
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stokedog4

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Beatable? Maybe. Depends on how disciplined, hard-working, and adaptable you are. Now how much profit you will earn... Well it's all about you.

Like some others have said, its a great learning tool and you can build a bankroll from playing there, though it could be a long, slow grind... But remember it's one big session!

good luck
 
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skaterick

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I cant beat any small stakes ring games except those on bovada ( now ignition ). I have a feeling that even the $5 and $10 min buyin no limit holdem 9 handed games on the other sites have grinders using data tracking software . How can an amateur have a chance vs them ?
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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There is money to be made, All micro limits are beatable and exploitable.

Work on all things.
 
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Nate313

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I'm playing 5nl on Ignition right now for practice for 1/2 Live, I get caught up in being results oriented way too much ,pretty much when you learn what the right play is always do it.

Honestly I need to take my own advice, if you play straight forward poker, can slightly put people on hand ranges, and can fold TPTK, a weak flush, aces vs a set, you can become a winning player imo.

I struggle with the swings though too a lot at 5nl had a hand where I flopped top set with Aces dude had a set with 5's perfect situation, then a 5 shows up on the river lol if you can handle bad beats that helps even more

I might be wrong w/ everything that I've said though
 
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chronical

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1. micros are beatble any way you look at it. Yes nl10 will be harder than nl2 and nl50 will be harder than nl10, ther are a lot of regs at any level but there are a lot of fish up to midstakes(and even there) onn thous levels.
Yu will get called with 2nd pairs on the river alot and you will see 2-3 players pulling dros(even runer-runers) for 3 streets.
Doing 7bb/100 at nl50 is possible so you can count how much that is for you a month/year.
Yes you will get swings.... but its poker, by deffinition your AA will lose to 34o sometimes.
Think like this: there are a lot of candians/brits... i mean first world countries that still play SNG/MTT at high stakes this makes me think that there are still money in poker that is enought for as-first-as-things-can-get-first countries to make a living or +
2. if you have problems at micros - you have problems with basics (to agro/to passive, folding too much/not folding when you should) it's really unlikely that someone whop beats you at micros use some magnificent exlo strategies =)
 
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Dorugremon

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From what I've heard they might not be beatable at all.

They're giving you bad advice. On-line micros are quite beatable if you're any good (as good as you think you are).

It's the small stakes FL games at live venues that I'd stay away from because of larcenous rakes. This is a bad move on their part. Be a little less greedy, give these players an honest break, and they'll move up to the bigger NL games.

People say the rake for them is just too high, so how is a new player supposed to learn how to beat the cash games if you can't learn at micro stakes and move up as you improve because you always end up busto?
Those "people" are fish making excuses. You didn't lose because the rake is too high, or because the RNG was programmed to torment you and you alone. You lost because you suck.

I cant beat any small stakes ring games except those on bovada ( now ignition ). I have a feeling that even the $5 and $10 min buyin no limit holdem 9 handed games on the other sites have grinders using data tracking software . How can an amateur have a chance vs them ?
Who the hell cares? Let them use that software, let them develop a sense of security, I'll get their 'rolls in the end. Data tracking soft is way over-rated. The only reason I use it is to track my own stats in order to know better how to exploit those using the same stats.

There is no substitute for observation, getting a line on your players for today's game, this session, this orbit. Doesn't matter what they did in the past, and I have a couple of regs I play all the time who have improved from fish that didn't stand a chance to winning players. They learn, plug leaks that I used to exploit. Their data is stale and tainted.

I have another reg of whom I'm certain lets a roommate/best friend/SO play his account. Once, twice a week it's like I'm playing a completely different player even though the screen name hasn't changed. Whoever is borrowing this account is a mega-fish. His data is tainted because of this, and I wonder if he's not doing this deliberately to poison his stats.

Regs who bounce between FL and NL games: more tainted data.

Data tracking soft won't tell you any of this.

Denial: it ain't just a river in Egypt.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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NUMBER 1 REASON WHAT ATTRACTED PLAYERS TO POKER


EVERYONE ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE AND ANYONE CAN HAVE A GO AND WIN THIS GAME. NO MATTER WHAT STAKES HIGH OR LOW YOU CAN WIN.

EVERYTHING ELSE WE ADD TO THE GAME AND MAKE THINGS TOUGH OR HARD.... BUT THATS IT WE ALL CAN WIN THIS GAME AND GAMES ARE NOT VERY HARD AT ALL... IT ALL DEPENDS ON OURSELVES.



REMEMBER ONE THING..... THIS MIGHT SOUND ODD OR CRAZY

BUT EVERYONE IS BAD AT POKER.



PS

POKER IS FOREVER CHANGING AND I STILL RUN INTO TILT MONKEYS AND PEOPLE WHO GET ALL IN WITH AX AND MISS OR EVEN SHOVE WITH RANDOM 2 CARDS. PEOPLE TEND TO MAKE THINGS SOUND HARDER FOR WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND IT IS THEIR WAY OF DEALING OF FAILURE.

EASY TO LEARN HARD TO MASTER.

SORRY FOR THE CAPS :)
 
Thinker_145

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I can beat 20NL easily. But the winrate will never be something I can actually make a living off.

Still trying to crack 50NL.
 
cheapseats76

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There are a lot of players who believe that tourney play is the same as cash play and they are very wrong. My advice to you is to read a book about micro stakes cash play. I always went with the trial and error platform but have read a few books the past year and I must admit I learned quite a bit. Most books aim towards the bigger buy in limits but there are few out there that specialize in the micro game. One rule I think is invaluable is small hand small pot, big hand big pot. A pair of Aces is a small hand so play it small and don't get yourself pot committed. The other rule is the deeper you go into a hand the more likely that your opponent is representing what you think they are. Pre and post flop bets can mean a lot of different things but if there still making pot sized bets on the turn and the river guess what your probably beat. Good luck on the felts!
 
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ludomaniaco24

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From my point of view the poker is unequal clear that you have to be lucky to win but there are many or most players who are successful that have or are supported by software ie they are assisted by computer workers to win is the difference between a Normal player and one that earns a lot of money without mentioning to the sure amount of people who cheat on star what I want to tell you that in order to win you have to be in the same conditions as them with software ie invest in programs For poker
 
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ZingyT

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in my experience, the cash table players are alot better then the tourney players (at every level)

I suggest trying to "beat" the micros in tourneys at first, since you can see a large number of hands for a "fixed risk" (the tourney buy in)

The other problem with micro cash games is the very high varience of bad callers that call down to the river and thus catch more straights/flush/etc. (example- semi skilled players may fold the flop or turn to heavy action thus reducing their "hits" by as much as 20%, where a bad player will make that call and make their hand more often)

In the long term this "should" suggest that a steady player should do better, but I personally have had the opposite experience.
 
Zeimar Silva

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do not give up. The way is to learn from low buyin to high buyin. Focus on learning how to play post-flop and review your hands, including the hands you have won.
 
BlackJesus

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Are u kiddin me? Micro stakes are the best growing arena for the superb pros. If u can make a profit there, u can make a profit in NL100 stakes for sure. Micro stakes are the ultimate test.
 
Shumkoolie

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Are u kiddin me? Micro stakes are the best growing arena for the superb pros. If u can make a profit there, u can make a profit in NL100 stakes for sure. Micro stakes are the ultimate test.

If you can play the "exact same game" at 100NL as you would at micro stakes, I'd be inclined to agree (generally speaking). But the reality is the vast majority of players will NOT play their game at 100NL exactly the same as they would if they were playing 2NL/5NL. Usually, it's only people who can afford to play 100NL that play down to 2/5NL. It won't work going the other way in most instances.
 
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the0

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I think that micro-stakes are an excellent way to prepare for the higher limits, and that players tend to apparently nonrandomly get AA and KK. Thus play cautiously and wait for big hands.
 
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Blitzer55

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From what I've heard they might not be beatable at all. People say the rake for them is just too high, so how is a new player supposed to learn how to beat the cash games if you can't learn at micro stakes and move up as you improve because you always end up busto?

They are beatable, but it's different on 10 NL than on 25 and 50 NL. Most of the time, it requires ABC poker on 10 NL, which I can't say for 25 and 50 NL. If you want to be profitable at 25 and 50 NL, you'll need more than that.
 
KingCurtis

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NUMBER 1 REASON WHAT ATTRACTED PLAYERS TO POKER


EVERYONE ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE AND ANYONE CAN HAVE A GO AND WIN THIS GAME. NO MATTER WHAT STAKES HIGH OR LOW YOU CAN WIN.

EVERYTHING ELSE WE ADD TO THE GAME AND MAKE THINGS TOUGH OR HARD.... BUT THATS IT WE ALL CAN WIN THIS GAME AND GAMES ARE NOT VERY HARD AT ALL... IT ALL DEPENDS ON OURSELVES.



REMEMBER ONE THING..... THIS MIGHT SOUND ODD OR CRAZY

BUT EVERYONE IS BAD AT POKER.



PS

POKER IS FOREVER CHANGING AND I STILL RUN INTO TILT MONKEYS AND PEOPLE WHO GET ALL IN WITH AX AND MISS OR EVEN SHOVE WITH RANDOM 2 CARDS. PEOPLE TEND TO MAKE THINGS SOUND HARDER FOR WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND IT IS THEIR WAY OF DEALING OF FAILURE.

EASY TO LEARN HARD TO MASTER.

SORRY FOR THE CAPS :)

Good advice. The caps got your point across because I was reading it in a yelling voice :D:D:D:D
 
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