Did he have odds?

i shit here sickened.
i dont understand why these sites make the suckers hit. but i guess the more donks the more money:marchmell

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/pok...a49fPost:c411e29d-ed10-492a-ab4b-e3ae4560f653

What did I do wrong?
did he have odds?
so many questions, so lil time. lol

Please post the Hand History. Whatever that site is sucks.

Nothing wrong with skybet. But I think he had roughly the odds to call, if he didn't have you on the set.

Sure there is. It's not the standard. The way the hand is presented is hard to read. What is so hard with posting the HH in the thread with a hand converter or even the raw text?

It's a format we are all use to and you don't have to click a link to go and see the hand.

His play didn't strike me as particularly donkish. He's ahead of TPTK here.

calling a all in with a 2nd best flush

you sure ben

TPC said:

Sure there is. It's not the standard. The way the hand is presented is hard to read. What is so hard with posting the HH in the thread with a hand converter or even the raw text?

It's a format we are all use to and you don't have to click a link to go and see the hand.

Click to expand...

thats the only format possible

and its easy to read

PokerBrat010 said:

thats the only format possible

and its easy to read

Click to expand...

No it's not, just post the raw Hand History.

PokerBrat010 said:

calling a all in with a 2nd best flush

you sure ben

Click to expand...

He's actually ahead of QQ here. It's a very strong drawing hand, he's got any diamond, any king, and any 3. That's 14 outs.

^ exactly

Why would you even post asking if you seem intent on proving that he didn't?

BenLZ said:

He's actually ahead of QQ here. It's a very strong drawing hand, he's got any diamond, any king, and any 3. That's 14 outs.

Click to expand...

lol. do you know how to play poker.
any king he loses. any 3 (wtf) please explian this. unless im going all in with 72o hows a 3 going to win

PokerBrat010 said:

lol. do you know how to play poker.
any king he loses. any 3 (wtf) please explian this. unless im going all in with 72o hows a 3 going to win

Click to expand...

He does not know you have a set, so usually any king will make him the best 2 pair hand which is going to beat a huge portion of your range.

Any diamond makes him the 2nd nut flush.

any 3 makes him a set

If he makes 2 pair on the turn, he has outs to a FH on the river.

Whilst I don't like the way he played it preflop, when he hits a flop like that he cant fold!

You seem to think that when he makes his postflop decision he can actually see that you have a set, whereas in reality your preflop raise is more likely to be a mid - big pair.

edit: the HH is awful, can you convert it to a standard format in future, please

You should have 100bb any time you're playing.

Raise more preflop. K3 obviously made a huge mistake here.

Flop, I'd like a bigger bet from you. If I did get to this flop with K3s I'm playing for stacks, his raise his standard.
You shove. He is getting about 3:1 on what is almost always a coinflip and he can never fold. Should he have raised you in the first place? Well, the two different lines for these combo lines are either slow playing or being hyper aggressive and imo you base your decision on how good your implied odds are if you hit, the better your implied odds the more likely you should be to slow play. With the K high flush draw though I don't think it's ever a big mistake to take the aggressive line since you're going to be up against the A high flush a lot when you get the money in after your hand gets there.

All in all, you should have raised bigger preflop, he shouldn't have limp called. On the flop his play was standard.

Also I dont like your PFR.

Usually the advice is raise, but this is one of the few times I would actually call/fold

As there are 3 limpers you risk the pot going MW, which is what happened.. the first limper calls and then all the others follow.

You hold 22

Other than hitting a set there is no board you will feel cmfortable making a play on, and because the pot is MW, the cost of making a play have quadrippled (a half pot bet in a MW pot is much larger than a half pot bet HU)

Also because the pot is MW the changes of the play working drastically reduce.

If there were 1 or 2 limpers I would raise here, and raise to 5BB

As there are 3, I would either limp or fold.

Right now there isnt enough infomation to suggest that the villian will stack off if he hits the flop and you hit a set, but in a 4 way pot virtually half of the money needed to justify set mining is already in the pot so long as you limp and dont get raised.

Raising here just bloats a pot that you will not often be able to take down postflop because of the lower SPR and higher number of players seeing the flop.

Yea, provided he didn't put you on a set (maybe TpTk), he had 9 outs for a flush, and another . . . what, five for two pair/trips?

Giving him 14 outs (x4) for a 56% chance to beat AJs. Since we know you had a set, and short of running 3's or K's or a combo of the two, let's just count his flush outs.

9 outs, (x4) for a 36% chance to make a flush.

Now let's look at the pot size after you shove.

20.2 moneys in the pot already,
7.5 moneys to call, or almost a 3:1.

If he doesn't put you on a set, then he's absolutely making the right play. If he puts you on a set, then his call is correct on the river anyway, barring your fullhouse redraw that I don't know how to calculate.

Stu is right, you didn't bet enough on that board.

That board is soaking wet and you played your monster too slow, but I doubt villain is going to pay you off in any way shape or form on this hand.

Since you can't see his hand, you don't know to jam, which I would consider the right move, and even then you're getting your money in bad to 33 or JJ. So you bet half the pot.

What draws are you shaking with a half-pot bet in a multiway pot?

None.

Spade draws and heart draws.

He raises, because if you have the nut FD he is ahead with his pair, you jam, and he has no choice.

Stu_Ungar said:

Also I dont like your PFR.

Usually the advice is raise, but this is one of the few times I would actually call/fold.

Click to expand...

I actually don't have a problem w raising pf, though I don't disagree w call/fold either.

I do have a problem with the size of the pf raise, though - did anyone notice that the K3s player only had to pay .60 into a pot of 1.70? He's not making a mistake calling there pf imo if he thinks nobody will re-raise after him - he'd probably be making a mistake by NOT calling if he thought nobody would re-raise AND that one or more people left to act would also call.

I did also want to point out that we should actually be sort of (and I understand how "sort of" this has to be) happy that we were able to get it all in as a 70/30 favorite in spite of losing the pot.

I disagree that it's call or fold. Call or raise I agree with.

This is never a fold pre-flop, but I don't mind the call as an alternative to raising.

If we do raise though, it has to be enough to have fold equity. Certainly not 4bb into a 4.5bb pot with everyone already having a 1bb discount, keeping in mind that as slycbnew pointed out, if they all call then none of them are making a mistake by calling.

If we call, we have to be set mining.

thepokerkid123 said:

I disagree that it's call or fold. Call or raise I agree with.

This is never a fold pre-flop, but I don't mind the call as an alternative to raising.

If we do raise though, it has to be enough to have fold equity. Certainly not 4bb into a 4.5bb pot with everyone already having a 1bb discount, keeping in mind that as slycbnew pointed out, if they all call then none of them are making a mistake by calling.

If we call, we have to be set mining.

Click to expand...

The fold is an option because we dont know how the blinds play. If they are manic squeezers, do we call knowing they reraise? Do we raise knowing that as we are on the button they may interperate it as a squeeze and re-squeeze?

Since no description of the blinds play has been made, I put it in there as an option.

PokerBrat010 said:

i dont understand why these sites make the suckers hit.

Click to expand...

My guess would be because when the table is 100% full of donks, they have no choice but to let one of them win the hand anyway...

Villain's preflop decision to limp K3s is obviously questionable, but then he has to call your undersized raise, and on the flop playing for stacks with pair + flush draw is 100% standard.

You decision to raise so small preflop that everybody will call is equally questionable. On the flop playing for stacks with a set is once again 100% standard.

So in the end, villain and hero both played it wrong preflop and perfectly postflop. The site had no other choice but to reward one of the two semi-donks.

BelgoSuisse said:

My guess would be because when the table is 100% full of donks, they have no choice but to let one of them win the hand anyway...

Villain's preflop decision to limp K3s is obviously questionable, but then he has to call your undersized raise, and on the flop playing for stacks with pair + flush draw is 100% standard.

You decision to raise so small preflop that everybody will call is equally questionable. On the flop playing for stacks with a set is once again 100% standard.

So in the end, villain and hero both played it wrong preflop and perfectly postflop. The site had no other choice but to reward one of the two semi-donks.

Click to expand...

^^^ this.....

I think if you give the HH a 2nd read it is not so bad. It shows fundz making a 'standard' 1/2(ish) pot size raise on the flop, villain pushing, and fundz shoving back. Agree it seems to be standard play these days. Fundz actions seem a bit more solid but villain was willing to gamble, and here he got paid off. Most of the time, villain will not get paid off here, and probably knows it, but he was in the mood here and well, what the hell, somebody had to win. Since the game is not played by computers, this hand shows one of the 49 essences of poker.

dj11 said:

villain was willing to gamble, and here he got paid off.

Click to expand...

Really, villain's play post flop is super super standard. If you don't play it this way, you're doing it wrong.

Villain has roughly 50% equity versus any reasonable range you give to hero, he can't expect great implied odds when playing the hand passively since a flush is pretty easy to suspect - plus the risk of paying off the A high flush when he hits - and on the other hand he should have decent fold equity when he plays the hand aggressively since it has only been cbet so far. So raising this flop is without the shadow of a doubt the correct play.

Villain's play is totally standard postflop, he's basically 50-50 or a small favorite over any 1-pair hand and there's no reason for him to believe hero has to have one...obviously after the reraise he knows he's beat but the final call is giving him almost 4-1 so he can't even fold a bare flush draw at that point.