hard time moving from 5nl to 10nl

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yanivshe

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every time I move up in stakes from 5nl (6max) to 10nl , Im loosing !
and on 5nl im a solid winner and i just dont get it . the play at 10nl is not all that different then 5nl . same number of fish same game just slightly higher limits.
i swear it seems that all the coolers are coming only when i move to 10nl !
soooo many times i get kk and someone with aa . someone makes a set on the river. set over set . etc..
i know what im saying doesnt make sense and the coolers should be the same .
i could understand if the play was more difficult at 10nl but its really not ! but i just cant understand how the 5nl is way easier to me then 10nl. the fish do the same crazy stuff against me only on 10nl the fish eventually hit theyre hand :\
 
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chauncey274

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every time I move up in stakes from 5nl (6max) to 10nl , Im loosing !
and on 5nl im a solid winner and i just dont get it . the play at 10nl is not all that different then 5nl . same number of fish same game just slightly higher limits.
i swear it seems that all the coolers are coming only when i move to 10nl !
soooo many times i get kk and someone with aa . someone makes a set on the river. set over set . etc..
i know what im saying doesnt make sense and the coolers should be the same .
i could understand if the play was more difficult at 10nl but its really not ! but i just cant understand how the 5nl is way easier to me then 10nl. the fish do the same crazy stuff against me only on 10nl the fish eventually hit theyre hand :\
Not really sure there. Seems that 5 and 10 are very similar. I notice a difference between 1/2 and 2/5 but not between 2/5 and 5/10. Maybe you just haven't played enough hands at that level? If you are playing well and making the right calls just tough through it (If you have the bank roll) and keep playing your game.
 
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swingro

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Actually 10NL is harder. Even though the percentage of fish is close to 5 NL you cannot iso them as at 5NL because a lot more regs want the same thing. At 5 NL isolating is simple because most of the regs are tight as hel. At 10NL regs start squeezing and 3-betting a lot more and they are a lot more agressive witch means they bet a wider range of hands that they did at lower lvls. They simply are better than at 5 NL.
The number of coolers is the same. Problem is that you cannot make up for them as you did at 5 NL. The winrate drops. The mistake you made at 2NL and 5 NL are not as easy to compensate.
 
LD1977

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Dunno, I had more success at 10NL than at 5NL (Full Tilt) and I really didn't see much difference in aggression levels. Loads of calling stations at both levels.
 
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Cokatoo56

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every time I move up in stakes from 5nl (6max) to 10nl , Im loosing !
and on 5nl im a solid winner and i just dont get it . the play at 10nl is not all that different then 5nl . same number of fish same game just slightly higher limits.
i swear it seems that all the coolers are coming only when i move to 10nl !
soooo many times i get kk and someone with aa . someone makes a set on the river. set over set . etc..
i know what im saying doesnt make sense and the coolers should be the same .
i could understand if the play was more difficult at 10nl but its really not ! but i just cant understand how the 5nl is way easier to me then 10nl. the fish do the same crazy stuff against me only on 10nl the fish eventually hit theyre hand :\

I'm just curious to know. When you say : "every time I move up in stakes from 5nl (6max) to 10nl , Im loosing !
and on 5nl im a solid winner and i just dont get it "

how many hands are you talking about ?
do you move up to NL10 after 50k hands ? or after a 3h winning session ?
when you say you are loosing at NL10, do you refer to one session where you loose your whole stack with a KK vs AA before going back down to NL5 ? or have you spent like 200 hours at NL10 ?
 
vinylspiros

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It's probably that you ran bad at 10NL. If you are a good winning player and you put a bit more volume into it , im sure things will eventually look upwards.

Dont give up.(unless your under-rolled)
 
rock0001

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then keep playing nl 5 and grind these tables and when you get some more money try to beat nl10 again .there is no rush to play in higher stakes if you are uncomfortable, or you are losing lots of money. the most important thing for you is to keep a good bankroll managment and dont get tilted when you lose.
 
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Sortuto

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Actually 10NL is harder. Even though the percentage of fish is close to 5 NL you cannot iso them as at 5NL because a lot more regs want the same thing. At 5 NL isolating is simple because most of the regs are tight as hel. At 10NL regs start squeezing and 3-betting a lot more and they are a lot more agressive witch means they bet a wider range of hands that they did at lower lvls. They simply are better than at 5 NL.
The number of coolers is the same. Problem is that you cannot make up for them as you did at 5 NL. The winrate drops. The mistake you made at 2NL and 5 NL are not as easy to compensate.

Man your answer makes all the sense.

I had the exact same situation as the OP, and could not understand why I could be extremely profitable at 5NL, and couldnt make it at 10NL even though it looked like the same field playing the same way.

I guess the regs are really more aggressive what makes it harder to compensate for the bad runs, thats where my edge was gone!

Thanks for the new point of view!
 
Erlisauskas

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in 5nl when u go all in they can call with AQ AJ A10 theres the difference
 
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yanivshe

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I do have good bankroll management that's one thing Ive learned to do well.
I started with a 50 dollar roll, played 5nl until I got to 200 dollars. than moved to 10nl and made it as far as 420 but not more.. since than every time my roll gets to around 150 I move down back to 5nl and start building again .

I have a very large sample size around 96k hands in 5nl in which I have a winrate of 6.5 BB/100
and around 150k hands in 10nl in which I have a negative winrate of -1.23.
now my roll is back to around 250 but I feel kinda frustrated because I dont feel like the game in 10nl is that hard but still Im losing.
I have a tilting problem which is making me lose a lot.. that I know of
 
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Tiltt2424

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Moving up limits makes coolers a lot more detrimental to your stack (obviously). The play from 5 NL to 10 NL isn't much different, just your loss relative to your bankroll when compared to a cooler at 5 NL may cause you to perceive these stakes as playing tougher. Keep playing your game, stay confident.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Moving up limits makes coolers a lot more detrimental to your stack (obviously)
not if you follow a good BRM it doesn't, a bi at 5nl compared to a bi at 10nl when you consider even say a 20 bi rule is still 5% if looking at it as being just having the same number of bi for the limit.

My thought if you think loosing a bi at 10nl vs at 5nl is a bigger impact to your br then looking at it too $$$ oriented. Obv if you lose a bi just having gotton rolled for 10nl then it might feel to be more detrimental because you would still be in the 5nl bi mindset and also would have been more comfortably rolled for the 5nl than you now are for 10nl.

Just some thoughts to think about, I'm technically still at 2nl though (stepped away from cash) so perhaps I'm not looking at it right :D
 
micromachine

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I do have good bankroll management that's one thing Ive learned to do well.
I started with a 50 dollar roll, played 5nl until I got to 200 dollars. than moved to 10nl and made it as far as 420 but not more.. since than every time my roll gets to around 150 I move down back to 5nl and start building again .

I have a very large sample size around 96k hands in 5nl in which I have a winrate of 6.5 BB/100
and around 150k hands in 10nl in which I have a negative winrate of -1.23.
now my roll is back to around 250 but I feel kinda frustrated because I dont feel like the game in 10nl is that hard but still Im losing.
I have a tilting problem which is making me lose a lot.. that I know of

Maybe you tilt more easily at 10nl than 5nl? I know I do and it's been a problem for me when moving up.

Less edge over opponents means higher variance, which can cause big bankroll swings and subsequent tilt.
 
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LittleRatBag

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I have just been informed by micromachine on another thread that the rake is slightly lower at 2nl and 5nl compared to 16nl. Maybe it steps up at 10nl, i'm not sure, but although this would not be reason alone for you struggling, it might perhaps be a very small factor in the difference in your results.
 
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yanivshe

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Maybe you tilt more easily at 10nl than 5nl? I know I do and it's been a problem for me when moving up.

Less edge over opponents means higher variance, which can cause big bankroll swings and subsequent tilt.

how are you dealing with these tilts ? and at what limit are you playing now ?
 
micromachine

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Playing a mix of 10nl and 5nl (buying in for 250bb) atm.

Dealing with tilt is complex, you might want to read Jared Tendler's book and make sure you truly understand the variance involved with poker. I've found having a lot of buy-ins for my level, not playing too many tables and only playing when I'm in the right frame of mind helps.
 
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acesintheholeallin

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Great post. I can totally see it would be hard to move up from 5 to 10. I think timing has a lotto do with also, it has to be the right time for sure.
 
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