Hand Analysis Please.

Is this a hand anyone can get away from.

Heads up cash table at bodog. Blinds 0.02/ 0.05. Im playing around $8 and he has me covered with $11.

Im on the button and 3x preflop raise with KQ of spades. He calls.

Flop: 10s, 2s, Qd... he checks... i bet 2/3 pot thinking monster.

Turn: 7h... he checks... I bet 2/3 thinking now my Q is good.

River: 9s... he bets 1/2 pot and I pop it again... He moves all in... Ive got the second nut flush and he's played loose and aggressive up until this point. I think he could easily all-in any flush, maybe even a straight.

I call the all in and he shows A8of spades and rakes the pot.

Tell me the error of my way or would you have played it the same.

Thanks

You played it fine.

played it horribly, you got it all in with second nuts on the river against a lag. LOL

you got coolered, get used to them

Its fine until the river.

When he reraises you, do you think this is ever a bluff? .. Id say no.

So its a value bet. You know he cant hold the second nut flush as you have that, so do you think this guy is loose enough to shove lesser flushes?

If he shoves lower flushes, then its never as a bluff, its as a value bet. So if he shoves 98s here, he calles a shove with 98s too, because when you raise his river bet, its almost always for value too.

I think you should take a raise fold line on the river. If you think villian is loose enough to shove lesser flushes then shove yourself. That way you always get stacked by higher flushes but never give him the oppotunity to play for less than stacks when he has a lower flush.

With stacks being so deep its highly unlikely he is shoving over your river raise with a hand you beat as most of the hands you beat call here rather than shove.

Stu_Ungar said:

Its fine until the river.

When he reraises you, do you think this is ever a bluff? .. Id say no.

So its a value bet. You know he cant hold the second nut flush as you have that, so do you think this guy is loose enough to shove lesser flushes?

If he shoves lower flushes, then its never as a bluff, its as a value bet. So if he shoves 98s here, he calles a shove with 98s too, because when you raise his river bet, its almost always for value too.

I think you should take a raise fold line on the river. If you think villian is loose enough to shove lesser flushes then shove yourself. That way you always get stacked by higher flushes but never give him the oppotunity to play for less than stacks when he has a lower flush.

With stacks being so deep its highly unlikely he is shoving over your river raise with a hand you beat as most of the hands you beat call here rather than shove.

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Pot is around $2.70 after villain has bet 1/2 pot (~$1)

Hero has around $7 left before raising. If hero makes it $3 and villain shoves, you're calling $4 to win $16 with the 2nd nut flush.

I'd be torn between raise calling river and just jamming river as he'll call with all his flushes/sets and some two pairs.

Pascal LeFiscal said:

I'd be torn between raise calling river and just jamming river as he'll call with all his flushes/sets and some two pairs.

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The problem I have with raise calling is he rarely raises worse and elects to call with most lesser flushes. He raises, I reraise, if he dosent hold the nuts he has to wonder if I do because I'm almost always raising for value here too.

In a spot like this, if you plan to raise call, just jam. Its hard to fold a flush. As OP shows, there is virtually no hand the second nut flush beats when the action is raise reraise shove, but he still calls. Hence shoving is the better option if you cant fold to a reraise.

Action is bet reraise shove, not raise reraise shove?

Readless I'm not folding the 2nd nuts on the river to a 3bet, however strong someone's line is. If I know he'll never take this line with a bare flush draw then I think you can change how you play it.

Pascal LeFiscal said:

Readless I'm not folding the 2nd nuts on the river to a 3bet, however strong someone's line is. If I know he'll never take this line with a bare flush draw then I think you can change how you play it.

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If you are never folding than you should shove not just raise.

Pascal LeFiscal said:

Action is bet reraise shove, not raise reraise shove?

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thanks

Stu_Ungar said:

If you are never folding than you should shove not just raise.

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maybe villain will call the reraise with lower flushes but fold to hero's shove?

LastTrader said:

maybe villain will call the reraise with lower flushes but fold to hero's shove?

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doubtfull

yep. I agree.. You where fine until the river or when he shoved all-in. At best you should of flat called with the 2nd nut depending on how pot committed you were. If my math is right, you could have flat called on the river and only lost... what about $2.00. A lot of players will not play king high flushes for this reason. I like playing them and have had a lot of luck with them. However, I don't fall in love with it even when playing a loose or donkey player. Remember, even a donkey gets a great hand every once and a while. If he is bluffing you , so what, let him bluff you. Fold or flat call and live to play another round. I have folded a lot of them on the river myself, especially in cash games. But, better yet, I have read many a poker book that says when in that situation the correct thing to do is to just call. When you could have the 2nd best hand and last to act you never raise!!! So, to answer your question, your raise when you could have called was your mistake.

Ignore the above post. Byron, you have the second best possible hand on that board against a loose aggressive opponent. There are a ton of worse combinations of cards he could hold which he will call a shove on the river with, and only one which beats you. Only ever calling here is blowing a lot of equity. The only question is whether to shove or raise IMO, and after Stu's post I think shoving is the best option.

IT's just a cooler, never flat a river 3-bet with the 2nd nuts and you played it fine. He has much more lower flushes/ KJ/Sets than simply the nuts

I think you played it just fine. I have not played in sometime nor posted on here in sometime but the 2nd nut flush and he goes all in... seeing as how he is a LAG im lickin my teeth and gonna call everytime. Lets face it you have a great hand here and most of the time are gonna get paid this was just one of those times where you didnt.

Over shoving is so sexy. Too many people bet .5 into a .6 pot when you can actually get calls from shoving $2 into it.

full tilt poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1288375
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $2.58
CO: $1.37
BTN: $1.97
SB: $3.28

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with 4 :spade: T :spade:
2 folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.04) Q :spade: 4 :heart: A :spade: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.04, SB calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.12) 4 :club: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.12, SB calls $0.12

River: ($0.36) 5 :diamond: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.40 all in, SB calls $2.40

Final Pot: $5.16
Hero shows 4 :spade: T :spade: (three of a kind, Fours)
SB mucks A :diamond: 8 :club:
Hero wins $4.82
(Rake: $0.34)

People are stupid AND curious. If he calls with a worse flush then he probably calls a shove.

Value bet is the way here.

I hate cooler hands in an MTT.

BigJamo said:

Value bet is the way here.

I hate cooler hands in an MTT.

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This is a cash game dude....

Oh... I must have misunderstood the question here. I assumed you were asking if you did something wrong that got you beat and made you lose your whole stack of $8. Because, some of the advice I see here is just telling how to lose the "right way"....lol. You lost the hand! If you shove before he does, like some are saying, you still lose the hand and all your chips!! You're not pushing him off the nuts. You have NO FOLD EQUITY or after he bets the river. What STU UNGAR said is absolutely correct.

I started years ago playing live games before I ever played online. In live games it is sometime tough to get much value out of nut flushes because when the 3rd suit hits, if you bet, everyone knows you have it and folds. I was shocked at how much can be made sometimes on nut flushes on the internet. A lot of the time player online never give you credit for the nut flush and keep betting. I have won many hands just like this, up against 2nd nut or even a worse flush.

But just as important, knowing when to fold saves bets. That is just as important as trying to win a pot. You where not at all pot committed (you're just in for what?.. a little over $1.50). I stand behind what I said... you should not be raising, shoving or calling a shove after the value bet on the river. With so many net players that play ace rag (including small suited aces), I would likely put even a donk on the suited ace here.

But I don't want to get into a pissing contest here. If I'm wrong, I'm in good company. My assessment is based on what I've read in the books by David Sklansky "The theory of poker", "Small stakes Hold'em" and Dan Harrington's "Cash Games volumes 1 & 2".... They all say to just flat call in this situation because you don't stick it all-in in a cash game with the 2nd nuts when you can just call without losing your whole stack.

By constantly flat calling with the 2nd nuts you lose huge value everywhere and become extremely exploitable

damn that's definitely a cooler of a hand, but there was no need to get it allin the way it played out...flat calling the river gets u a decent pot if ur good, and saves you a lot of chips if you're beat...i know at the moment its nearly impossible to give them credit for the one hand that beats you, but theres no need to re-raise here

fkucdaw0rld said:

i know at the moment its nearly impossible to give them credit for the one hand that beats you, but theres no need to re-raise here

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This seems to contradict itself