Good Microstakes C-bet bluff amounts??

EchoEllis

EchoEllis

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Just wanted some opinions on best amount to c-bet bluff in the micro stakes - particularly 2nl/5nl.

I'm talking about either a semi bluff (open ended straight draw/flush draw) or a complete bluff.

I know you shouldn't c-bet every flop, I don't mean on wet boards etc and also I mean heads-up only. This is for when the circumstances to c-bet are perfect.

So basically in each of the following circumstances:

- In position
- Out of position
- Villain is loose
- Villain is tight

I normally 50% pot a semi/complete bluff and 75% pot value bet - I don't normally vary this much.

I know at the higher stakes you should keep you c-bet amounts similar for deception but at the lowest stakes does it really matter if you make it 50%, 60%, 75% or 85%? Will villains at these stakes pick up on this?

Is it ever correct to bet less than 50% of the pot? And will 55% make a difference rather than 50% as it's just over half the pot?

Some opinions would be great, thanks.
 
A

Aslama01

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I'm not a crusher, but I feel like 1/3-1/2 pot really is what does the trick at a good cost. You can do more for a slight increase in folds, but a significant decrease in profits. I don't have empirical proof to back it up, just experience.
 
EchoEllis

EchoEllis

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I'm not a crusher, but I feel like 1/3-1/2 pot really is what does the trick at a good cost. You can do more for a slight increase in folds, but a significant decrease in profits. I don't have empirical proof to back it up, just experience.

Yeah maybe around 33% against tight players will work, but I just feel it gives them an opportunity to raise as they sense weakness when they may have nothing there self and a 50%+ c-bet would of done the job
 
Fknife

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Is it ever correct to bet less than 50% of the pot?
Of course! Eg: the "thinner" your bet, the smaller your bet size should generally be.
And will 55% make a difference rather than 50% as it's just over half the pot?
Lol, yes villain has to defend about 2% less often :)

As for the rest of your post...it all comes down to your exploitative skills (eg: reading that FCB stat :eek:).
 
PokerFunKid

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- In position. I've got %43 and %64 on my bar (and one 34 and 84 but mostly don't use it) %46 fine i think. You can use it for value if you have something, but also when you take your shot on a bluff. Also depends on how you played your hands before. If you've been betting for value with 64% you might want to use 64%
- Out of position. Same here %43, i think %33 is to weak and if you only will use it on bluffs it will be to obvious.
- Villain is loose. Try not to bluff loose players, tell your self they will call anyways.
- Villain is tight. He will mostly fold unless he has a read on you, or have a good hand. I would choose for %43 again but if he's folding to a min raise or 34% with nothing (only if he's super tight) it might also work.
an
What i do myself is use the %64 for value, sometimes the %43 randomly to keep unpredictable and use the %46 sometimes to c-bet bluf and also the %64 sometimes to c-bet/semibluff. Don't feel forced to 2 or 3 barrel it if he calls your c-bet bluff. Its a mistake i often make. Working on that now and i've been quitting 3-barreling with nothing. And don't feel forced to c-bet to often, it might cost you a lot in long term.
 
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CrockPot

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Just wanted some opinions on best amount to c-bet bluff in the micro stakes - particularly 2nl/5nl.

I'm talking about either a semi bluff (open ended straight draw/flush draw) or a complete bluff.

I know you shouldn't c-bet every flop, I don't mean on wet boards etc and also I mean heads-up only. This is for when the circumstances to c-bet are perfect.

So basically in each of the following circumstances:

- In position
- Out of position
- Villain is loose
- Villain is tight

I normally 50% pot a semi/complete bluff and 75% pot value bet - I don't normally vary this much.

I know at the higher stakes you should keep you c-bet amounts similar for deception but at the lowest stakes does it really matter if you make it 50%, 60%, 75% or 85%? Will villains at these stakes pick up on this?

Is it ever correct to bet less than 50% of the pot? And will 55% make a difference rather than 50% as it's just over half the pot?

Some opinions would be great, thanks.
Semi bluffs aren't too bad but if I was you, I would refrain from bluffing in the micros.


With that being said it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't. Only bluff observant opponents.

Bluffing in position I usually use 60-75%, I really wouldn't want to bluff out of position, unless I was playing the right type of opponent (which you are more than likely not in the micros).

Villain is loose, I'm usually not bluffing(definitely not out of position) (not in position unless you're willing to triple barrel), Villain is tight, C-bet away in and out of position, not too often of course. Usually though when I C-bet I don't consider that bluffing. Only when I have no outs or feel that I can't win no matter what comes (ex. many over cards on flop or even turn) do I consider myself bluffing.

Out of position I would probably bet big (70-80% of pot). If your playing a good, observant opponent (which your probably not in the micros) make your bets look like value bets, like you want them to call.

Really though the best bluffing advice I have ever heard/could give you is just believe you have the nuts when you make the bet (this way you wont doubt your self), be confident your bluff or C-bet is going to work! Believe and be confident!

But I still would refrain from bluffing in the micros, I would just play ABC until you work your way up. Just my opinion you don't have to agree or take my advice though, and most importantly good luck!
 
EchoEllis

EchoEllis

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Semi bluffs aren't too bad but if I was you, I would refrain from bluffing in the micros.


With that being said it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't. Only bluff observant opponents.

Bluffing in position I usually use 60-75%, I really wouldn't want to bluff out of position, unless I was playing the right type of opponent (which you are more than likely not in the micros).

Villain is loose, I'm usually not bluffing(definitely not out of position) (not in position unless you're willing to triple barrel), Villain is tight, C-bet away in and out of position, not too often of course. Usually though when I C-bet I don't consider that bluffing. Only when I have no outs or feel that I can't win no matter what comes (ex. many over cards on flop or even turn) do I consider myself bluffing.

Out of position I would probably bet big (70-80% of pot). If your playing a good, observant opponent (which your probably not in the micros) make your bets look like value bets, like you want them to call.

Really though the best bluffing advice I have ever heard/could give you is just believe you have the nuts when you make the bet (this way you wont doubt your self), be confident your bluff or C-bet is going to work! Believe and be confident!

But I still would refrain from bluffing in the micros, I would just play ABC until you work your way up. Just my opinion you don't have to agree or take my advice though, and most importantly good luck!

I've read a lot that c-bets are highly profitable in the micros though as a lot of players don't fold pre flop and then fold when they hit nothing. I only c-bet the flop I don't double barrel.
 
deluns28

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double barrel is profitable at the micros. You can bluff thru the river sometimes with good read.

Follow the previous posts about not bluffing the loose players and tight player with good holdings.
 
Aces2w1n

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I think the level of bet size.. Should just be the same as when you have a hand...

When you change your sizes depending on your holdings, Some players will catch on... Not everyone is totally stupid in the micros but obviously reads help when deciding who is a thinking player and who is not.

If the bet size is just the same, then people won't think, but a random size to bet may get some attention or an interest, people do love to call to keep people honest.


Enjoy...
 
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I don't know about you guys but I play 5nl and if I see someone altering their C-bet size against me I'm instantly check raising all the small ones and folding top pair to the large ones. I alter my bet size based on the situation and how my perceived range might hit certain flop textures, not the strength of my hand. All my C-bets from the button against blinds are 50% when I'm playing regs.

Against fish sure alter it as much as you want but you have to be sure that they are a fish, and remember that the regs are going to notice you doing it to the fish, so don't do it to them or they will punish you haha.
 
CrockPot

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I've read a lot that c-bets are highly profitable in the micros though as a lot of players don't fold pre flop and then fold when they hit nothing. I only c-bet the flop I don't double barrel.

Maybe that's so. But not double barreling at this level is smart. That's the beautiful part about the game we can disagree and both still be good profitable players! You just have to find what works for you, which you will. Good luck grinding and keep the dream alive!
 
AWW_DIN

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I feel that c-bet at the micro levels can be profitable but with low stakes comes many fishermen. I do believe that double barrel bet does work when ur opponent is also on a draw and misses. Not double barreling after a semi bluff that hits is a great way to trap them.
 
EchoEllis

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lol the idea of this post was to get bet size amounts and not when to c-bet but hey ho all replies are welcome
 
EchoEllis

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Anyone else got some bluff cbet size amounts?
 
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I like 60%, but it's all contextual.

I can usually get folds with as low as 50% with certain players, as they've seen me half-pot c-bet with KK on a 10-8-6 board. This induced a shove from J10 since it looks like I'm making a halfhearted c-bet.

So a half-pot bet from me doesn't mean I missed with AK like it does with everyone else.

If I know the caller has seen me make this bet, especially if it's a few orbits ago and it was a dramatic hand where I had the overpair, I don't need to pot it when I *am* semibluffing or bluffing with zero equity.

So I think balancing a little, even at the microstakes, can be helpful to protect your semibluffs.
 
EchoEllis

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I like 60%, but it's all contextual.

I can usually get folds with as low as 50% with certain players, as they've seen me half-pot c-bet with KK on a 10-8-6 board. This induced a shove from J10 since it looks like I'm making a halfhearted c-bet.

So a half-pot bet from me doesn't mean I missed with AK like it does with everyone else.

If I know the caller has seen me make this bet, especially if it's a few orbits ago and it was a dramatic hand where I had the overpair, I don't need to pot it when I *am* semibluffing or bluffing with zero equity.

So I think balancing a little, even at the microstakes, can be helpful to protect your semibluffs.

I think between 50-80% most fishy players are not going to notice the difference so I often 55% for bluffs, 66% for value and 75-80% for value on a wet board or multiway pot, most players will not adjust to this but maybe a 40% or less bet will set off alarm bells aswell as giving players odds to float and hit a card on the turn
 
mendiolacubicle

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CBET can go as low as 1/3 of the pot and as high as 3/4 but playing in micros for a long time, even with regs 1/3 will be sufficient unless they are chasing or has hit something. 2nd barrel is required and sometimes same amount of CBET from the flop. I'm trying it out and SOMEHOW it's working.
 
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For me it depends on the board.

27A I cbet ~1/2 pot because there are no draws to price out.

89K I cbet ~3/4 to get more value from draws.

456 I cbet ~1/2 to protect my stack on a dangerous board.

TJA I cbet ~pot to get max value with my good hands.

I use these sizings with my whole range. With a read that my opponent is clueless, I'll tailor my sizing to either make a bluff cheaper or make a value bet more profitable.
 
CrockPot

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I think the problem with this thread is that your trying to play post flop the same way as pre flop. Pre flop play is systematic, but post flop play is where the skill comes in, there's no system for playing post flop. You have to develop this play according to many variables the main 2 being position and your playing style. If you can develop an image at the table and see yourself the way the other players see you than this will help more than any percentages or set plays.
 
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