Good or bad to have a tight table image?

Say the entire table has pegged you as a very tight player. Are other players more or less likely to raise you with weaker hands? For example preflop, if you raise from the CO, is the aggressive button more likely to raise with say, a Q 10 against a tight player thinking "he's tight so he won't call this raise unless he has a big pair or AK"? Or would the button be more inclined to raise a loose aggressive player because "the LAG player is more likely to have a weak hand than a tighter player". In other words, if a player has a tight table image are the other players more or less likely to make moves on him?

I mix my play up because I'm a tourney play about 90 percent of the time.

Nice question. I guess my first thought is that if everyone at a table thinks you are super tight, then shouldn't they also think any hand you will raise with, you will also call/re-raise with, and therefore won't be as likely to make moves on you? If they think you're very tight, they think you are only playing premium starting hands and therefore should be less likely to move on you. So if they think you are very tight, loosen up and raise.

But if they think you are very tight then they know you are more likely to fold a decent hand like Ace Ten than a loose player. Remember, just cuz a player is tight doesn't mean he only plays AA KK QQ or AK. Every player, tight or loose, will probably raise with hands like 55 or Ace 9 in late position when its folded to them, but a tight player is probably more likely to back down to a reraise preflop than a loose player, and the other players know this. So wouldn't a move be more sucessful against a tight player?

Yes I agree that if it is folded pre-flop to the CO, tight or loose, fat or skinny, most players will raise with moderate hands. In this situation, yes, I would think that the players left to act are more likely to make a move on you because they know you are tight and could easily back you off of that so-so hand you just raised with. But say this is not the case. What if you have three or four limpers and you raise from the CO? Then I think people are much less likely to make a move because not only are there too many others in the pot, namely tricky early position limpers, but also teddy tightpants who just raised a multi-handed pot.

Bentheman87 said:

...but a tight player is probably more likely to back down to a reraise preflop than a loose player, and the other players know this...

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I don't agree with this logic. A very tight player, is tight, but not necessarily passive. It sounds like you are describing a tight passive player. So if someone is tight, they are going to wait until they have a premium holding. The pre-flop betting is around to them, they call or raise. Someone re-raises them. If they are at all a thinking player, they should know how their play compares to the table, namely, that they are tight. Subsequently, they should also know that their holding is not a severe underdog to any other possible starting hand, because, hey, they are tight. So they will call/raise the majority of the time. Post-flop is a different story. In order for my logic to be correct, however, two things must happen. The hero (very tight player) must be a thinking player and know what it means to be tight, and also the villain (player looking to take advantage of the hero) must be a thinking player and know how tight players act. Does this make sense? I feel like I'm blowing smoke up your arse now.

I believe the distinction lies not in VPIP percentages and "tightness", but instead in the level of aggression your opponents read you as having. If you are tight-aggressive then your opponents will respect your raises a great deal. If you are tight-passive then your opponents will often just re-raise you right out of pots.

I have often pondered a similar question. If I am playing tight, do I want my opponents to believe I am playing as I am so my raises get respect, or do I want to mislead them and get them to think I am playing loose so my raises get little respect?

soccerfreakjj10 said:

I believe the distinction lies not in VPIP percentages and "tightness", but instead in the level of aggression your opponents read you as having. If you are tight-aggressive then your opponents will respect your raises a great deal. If you are tight-passive then your opponents will often just re-raise you right out of pots.

I have often pondered a similar question. If I am playing tight, do I want my opponents to believe I am playing as I am so my raises get respect, or do I want to mislead them and get them to think I am playing loose so my raises get little respect?

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You want them to think the opposite of what you are doing. If you raise only with premiums, you want opponents to think it's any 2 cards and start re-raising you. If you play loose, you want opponents to think you play tight so they'll give up when you raise. Unfortunately it's hard to convince them the opposite of what's actually happening. All about mixing it up though. If people peg you as a loose player, tighten up and take advantage of it when you get a premium hand. If they have you pegged as a tight player, loosen up and steal some blinds.

It's rare that my opponents think I'm tight, since I'm usually in a lot of pots, but I think it's most important to be aware of what your opponents think of you. You can use your image regardless of what it is effectively as long as you're aware of it. If people see you as a loose player you can get more action from premium hands, if people see you as a tight player it makes your steals more effective. Whatever your image is you can use counterexploitative strategies to drain your opponent's chips as long as they're using an exploitative strategy. The players who you have to watch out for are the ones who use near optimal game theoretical approaches to the game, as exploitative play isn't generally that advantageous against them.

zachvac said:

You want them to think the opposite of what you are doing. If you raise only with premiums, you want opponents to think it's any 2 cards and start re-raising you. If you play loose, you want opponents to think you play tight so they'll give up when you raise. Unfortunately it's hard to convince them the opposite of what's actually happening. All about mixing it up though. If people peg you as a loose player, tighten up and take advantage of it when you get a premium hand. If they have you pegged as a tight player, loosen up and steal some blinds.

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Mixing it up. Best advice there is. If you become too predictable, you can also make all the other table moves equally predictable by your opponents, or so unpredictable that they are using their 'mix it up' skills against you. No real way to take advantage of that condition.

Being a mixmaster is the objective, but you need to get the right ingredients in at the right time. I've only been online a year and a half and playing live since '69, but from what I've seen, having a predictable tight table image in live table limit games is one of the few places that there is a small advantage. Online it doens't matter. Players will chase everything and anything.

I thought this was interesting. My friend justified calling one of my large bets with the thought:

"You have been playing very tight and know that. You also know that we know you are playing tight. Therefore you could very well be taking advantage of your image here with a move."

He then called.

I just thought it was interesting hearing that rationale from a very average player.

soccerfreakjj10 said:

I thought this was interesting. My friend justified calling one of my large bets with the thought:

"You have been playing very tight and know that. You also know that we know you are playing tight. Therefore you could very well be taking advantage of your image here with a move."

He then called.

I just thought it was interesting hearing that rationale from a very average player.

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Was he right?

n.b.: aggression is often mistaken for looseness by weak passive players. This is due to the fact that raises are so rare for them (and the games they usually play in) that they assign undo notice to them when they do occur. This is the prefect situation if you are actually tight as well as aggressive.

I think the right answer is the answer I hate giving...it depends. If you know how to use your table image and know how others are perceiving you, then I think people may be less likely to call you and you can bluff when you need to. If you don't know how to use your table image, I think players who perceive you as tight will push you around more often.

One answer if you play tight aggressive is to raise ore rerais
with hands like A Q. If you hit a Q high flop people will often think you bluff and you will get paid.

And if it is a high flop the opponent(s) will likely fold.

But my variance is bigger because of play with hands like that. But it gives me a looser image .And more profit

Do they really pay attention ?

I wonder if all this talk and strategy is lost in on-line play. Do players really pay attention to others actions? I just had a guy call my 3.5 BB bet when I hadn't played a hand in over 20 minutes.
Then the flop comes A-8-6 - great for my AQ and he goes all-in - I'm low on chips so I call and he shows K-Jos ???
How does multi-tabling affect image? Unless your using a stat-tracker, you will not know what eery player is doing on the 7th of 8 tables you are playing.

dufferdevon said:

I wonder if all this talk and strategy is lost in on-line play. Do players really pay attention to others actions? I just had a guy call my 3.5 BB bet when I hadn't played a hand in over 20 minutes.
Then the flop comes A-8-6 - great for my AQ and he goes all-in - I'm low on chips so I call and he shows K-Jos ???
How does multi-tabling affect image? Unless your using a stat-tracker, you will not know what eery player is doing on the 7th of 8 tables you are playing.

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I think the stakes of the game have a big part of whether they do or don't pay attention. Low stakes aren't much better than freerolls/play money. It takes 5-6xbb to equal a 3.5bb bet sometimes at low limits.