Good old AK 6 max

Hello dear cardschat fellas!
It is a generic question that I am very curious about.
In 2020 against regs at micro to mid(NL5-NL100) stakes 6 max cash games do you think it is plus EV to:

1.4-bet shove with AK
2.Call 4-bet shove with AK

This happens a lot and I am clueless

I'm almost always happy to get it all in with AK preflop, but as always it depends. Are you pushing against multiple opponents? Do they have a wide 3 betting range or a small 3 betting range? What are effective stack sizes?

1.
As a rule of thumb I 4-bet 3x the intial 3-betters amount so if you're buying in deep and topping off your stack this isn't a shove. With this sizing you'll still get folds from marginal 3-bet holdings while risking the minimum.

2.
Again depends on your opponents 4-betting range, and the pot odds being offered. After typical online open and 3-bet sizings you'll need about 45% equity to make the call. (bbs in pot before shove = 1,5 + 3 + 9). If he's shoving tight (JJ+, AKs, AKo) you'll have 40% equity so you're supposed to fold. If he has reason to suspect you're 3-betting light (e.g. 3bet from the sb to a button open) he might also be 4-betting a wider range which makes this an easy call. (against 88+, ATs+, AJo, KQs, AK has about 51% equity). Since you're unlikely to face a 4-bet shove when playing sufficiently deep you'll almost always get the odds to call or 5-bet shove with AK.

I'd rather to play AK post-flop than pre, but it's only for me, usually I think that shoving with AK is a good idea, hard to play after flop of you don't hit it

Mahdi said:

I'd rather to play AK post-flop than pre, but it's only for me, usually I think that shoving with AK is a good idea, hard to play after flop of you don't hit it

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Im agree with your opinion Mahdu and think the same

Hermus said:

1.
As a rule of thumb I 4-bet 3x the intial 3-betters amount so if you're buying in deep and topping off your stack this isn't a shove. With this sizing you'll still get folds from marginal 3-bet holdings while risking the minimum.

2.
Again depends on your opponents 4-betting range, and the pot odds being offered. After typical online open and 3-bet sizings you'll need about 45% equity to make the call. (bbs in pot before shove = 1,5 + 3 + 9). If he's shoving tight (JJ+, AKs, AKo) you'll have 40% equity so you're supposed to fold. If he has reason to suspect you're 3-betting light (e.g. 3bet from the sb to a button open) he might also be 4-betting a wider range which makes this an easy call. (against 88+, ATs+, AJo, KQs, AK has about 51% equity). Since you're unlikely to face a 4-bet shove when playing sufficiently deep you'll almost always get the odds to call or 5-bet shove with AK.

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Thanks for the answers mate! But I am still curious about:


1. Idea and logic behind this seems right but isn't 3x 4-bet sizing too much? (In 100BB games)

2.After a 4-bet we would have left with 100-27=73bb and pot equity to call a shove is 73/200=36.5% So with 40% equity it is a clear call with AKo once we invested 27bb into the pot.

Other points are understood.

arenaci said:

Thanks for the answers mate! But I am still curious about:


1. Idea and logic behind this seems right but isn't 3x 4-bet sizing too much? (In 100BB games)

2.After a 4-bet we would have left with 100-27=73bb and pot equity to call a shove is 73/200=36.5% So with 40% equity it is a clear call with AKo once we invested 27bb into the pot.

Other points are understood.

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1. Yeah you can get away with smaller sizing in certain situations. Anywhere between 2x to 2.5x works well if you're IP, and 3x works well if you're OOP. The extra fold equity you get is worth the risk since it's harder to realize any equity from OOP.

2. Jup you're looking to call the 5-bet shove. Most of the time I'm not super happy about it, but we get the right pot odds and hold blockers to AA and KK so it could be worse.

I am learning tojust call blinds or if you are at the end of the game like 5 handed then push

In 100BB cash games a shove should normally be a 5-bet, while a 4-bet should typically be to 20-25BB leaving you room to fold to a 5-bet. I would say, that if you always stack off AK preflop for 100BB, then this is going to be a leak even at 6-max. There typically need to be the right conditions for it like a late position battle or a specific kind of opponent like a maniac. To be honest taking AK to far preflop was one of my big leaks in my early cash game days. I used to just stack it off without thinking much about it, and then I complained about, how I always got coolered, when I ran into AA - again