gonna make the jump from 2nl to 5nl.... comments?

coolDadJimbo

coolDadJimbo

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so....
been playing for almost 2 years and have only recently starting making some money... i've flipped flopped between play money and real money...... in the last year i played play money forever and made the switch back to real money recently

started with an $18 bankroll my last deposit (3 weeks ago)... playing mostly zoom, and with some tourney winnings, i've built my bank roll to $95..

so, with cautious BRM, i've decided when i hit the $100 to $110 amount i will jump up to the 5nl zoom.... if i start losing i will go back down.



i've read that the biggest difference between limits is between the 2nl and 5nl....

can i get some comments on this statement?
or
general comments/observations/tips/etc?

thanks a bunch!:) :D






(related) good link: http://www.blackrain79.com/2016/03/moving-from-nl2-to-nl5-what-to-expect.html
 
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rugelis

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Just play and see if u can beat it. If not go back and learn more.
 
IPlay

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I don't think you will get much better advice then the Blackrain article! So I just wish you luck and recommend posting hands that you felt lost in and see what kind of feedback you get.
 
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theevildub

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when i play the 1,2 games, as opposed to the 3,5 games, i notice a big difference in bet sizing. for example: if you play 1,2 and someone is on a draw, they will usually bet around 13 dollars on average. if you play the 3,5 game ... people usually bet anywhere from 30 - 50 dollars on draws.

at the 1,2 the average buy in is from 50 to 100, and at the 3,5 the average buy in is from 100 - 300. so if you only buy in for 100 at the 3,5 you will more than likely be playing a bunch of people with much bigger stacks. They bully you a LOT more / and give you much more action because there is more money in the pot preflop.

at those higher limits, you can win a LOT more money in no time.
you could also LOSE a LOOOOTTTT more money in the blink of an eye ... so just be careful and play smart, and im sure you will kick butt !!!

Good Luck !
 
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Rumme1

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a $95 bankroll can be wiped out in 1 session of bad luck.

My suggestions, if you want to play higher stakes, increase your bankroll.

If you want to only risk $95...then stay with the lower limits.
 
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Jreece18

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Don't be too hard on yourself if it's not so easy the first time you try and move up. Imo, the extra money plays on your mind a bit and you play differently to how you normally would. Not particularly because it's a lot of money, but you start thinking 'shit, that was 3BI's at Xnl... That took me a while to grind'. I'm sure it doesn't happen to everyone, but struggling at first doesn't mean you're not good enough for the stake.
 
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Rumme1

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If I only had a $95 bankroll, and wanted it to last, I would stick to limit poker or pot limit poker, with smaller blind structures.

Nl poker can wipe you out in 1 quick hand, with one bad beat , when you have such a negligible bankroll .
 
RogueRivered

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I can only state what happened when I went from 2nl to 5nl right before Black Friday, but it wasn't much different. Personally, I felt better having 100 buy-ins before jumping up, but that's pretty conservative. However, I often had 15 or more buy-ins going at the same time. The biggest change I saw was between 5nl and 10nl. I had about 60K hands each at 2nl, 5nl and 10nl. 5nl had the best hourly rate.

Some people seem to think you are talking about 200nl. No, he's talking about moving from 2 cent to 5 cent big blinds.
 
6

6bet me

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As someone who has played over 100k hands over the past 6 months at a mixture of 2NL, 5NL and 10NL 6-max zoom on pokerstars, take it from me that the jump between 2NL and 5NL is huge. I'll show you my win rates at the 3 stakes:

v6uhpd.png


You're probably wondering why I'm beating 2NL and 10NL but getting crushed at 5NL. Here is why:
- 10NL has a lot of recreational players. The main reason is because of the "challenge" bonuses that Amaya introduced that require you to play at stakes $0.05/$0.10 or higher. The other reason is because 5c/10c blinds and a $10 buy-in is just way more appealing to recreational players. Do you notice that there are always more players in the 10NL zoom player pool than there are at the 5NL zoom player pool? This is because they both have the same number of regs, but 10NL has way more recreational players.
- 5NL is basically all regs that have graduated from 2NL. Think about the top 10% of players at 2NL and then imagine everyone at 5NL playing at that level. They're not unbeatable, but for an average skilled player like me, they are very tough.

Good luck making the jump from 2NL to 5NL! It's not easy but you will learn a lot in the process.
 
coolDadJimbo

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hey!
thanks for the great feedback!

yes, i am talking about $.02/.05 blinds with a $5 buy-in.... i've been playing the $.01/.02 ($2 buyin) for a couple years...

$100 should be a good bankroll for $5nl.... no? maybe a little small

it's only 20 buy-ins, but for $2 it's 50 buy-ins, which is pretty conservative for 2nl.... so, time to level up?

anyways, played 2nl until bankroll went from $95 to $105, then switched to 5nl.... took my $5 turned it into $26 and eventually cashed out at $18... bankroll grew to $114

so, i had 1 session and won a few extra buyins, so i'm going to try and stick with 5nl for a bit more... and hopefully keep chipping up...

be cool peeps
 
6

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No offence, but playing a few hundred hands and winning 4 BI is pretty meaningless. Let me show you my graph for 5NL:

2d8gweq.png


Look at the two points on my graph which I circled. This shows a stretch of 3k hands where I won $83 (that is over 16 BI won at 5NL!). I was on a massive heater and I just kept winning and winning. Now, imagine if those were my first 3k hands at 5NL. I'd think I'm pretty good at poker, right? I'd be talking about moving up to 10NL and 25NL, since I'm such an awesome poker player that is truly crushing 5NL... clearly this is not the case, if you look at the entire graph.

Don't confuse an upswing with being able to beat 5NL over a large sample size.
 
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Rumme1

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As someone who has played over 100k hands over the past 6 months at a mixture of 2NL, 5NL and 10NL 6-max zoom on PokerStars, take it from me that the jump between 2NL and 5NL is huge. I'll show you my win rates at the 3 stakes:

v6uhpd.png


You're probably wondering why I'm beating 2NL and 10NL but getting crushed at 5NL. Here is why:
- 10NL has a lot of recreational players. The main reason is because of the "challenge" bonuses that Amaya introduced that require you to play at stakes $0.05/$0.10 or higher. The other reason is because 5c/10c blinds and a $10 buy-in is just way more appealing to recreational players. Do you notice that there are always more players in the 10NL zoom player pool than there are at the 5NL zoom player pool? This is because they both have the same number of regs, but 10NL has way more recreational players.
- 5NL is basically all regs that have graduated from 2NL. Think about the top 10% of players at 2NL and then imagine everyone at 5NL playing at that level. They're not unbeatable, but for an average skilled player like me, they are very tough.

Good luck making the jump from 2NL to 5NL! It's not easy but you will learn a lot in the process.

Yes..you are correct about the middle stakes games usually having the best players.

I witnessed this in atlantic city casinos 15 years ago when I would play $15-$30 ..and $25-$50 limit 7 card stud. The players would be very loose in those games, but if you went down in stakes, to the $5-$10 limit 7 stud games, the players were much better and much tighter. I think the reason is that players in that moderate limit range, have less money, and they respect their money more..so they are better poker players and better disciplined.
 
6

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I can't comment on your experiences in live poker, but I know with online poker, certain games attract recreational players more than others. I feel that recreational players are attracted to the following stakes on PokerStars: 2NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL, 100NL. They're just nice, round numbers where someone can say "I've got a spare $50, I don't mind risking it at the cash game tables". I feel that they're not attracted to 5NL and 16NL as much. Also, with the new "challenge" bonuses on PokerStars encouraging people to play 10NL or higher for a small chance to win a jackpot, that just floods the 10NL games with fish, because we know how much recreational players love jackpots and lotteries.
 
R

Rumme1

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I can't comment on your experiences in live poker, but I know with online poker, certain games attract recreational players more than others. I feel that recreational players are attracted to the following stakes on PokerStars: 2NL, 10NL, 25NL, 50NL, 100NL. They're just nice, round numbers where someone can say "I've got a spare $50, I don't mind risking it at the cash game tables". I feel that they're not attracted to 5NL and 16NL as much. Also, with the new "challenge" bonuses on PokerStars encouraging people to play 10NL or higher for a small chance to win a jackpot, that just floods the 10NL games with fish, because we know how much recreational players love jackpots and lotteries.

all im saying is my experinces have showed me that in live casinos...where you have limits of :

$1-$2

$5-$10

$10-$20

$25-$50

$50-$`100

the best players were generally at the $5-$10 table. They made the least mistakes, played with the most discipline. I think its because the money meant more to them, because they werent rich, werent poor and respected the money more.
 
coolDadJimbo

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hey guys,

i have decided to do a varied approach to the games i select based on the size of my bankroll

i will still mostly play 2nl cash/zoom and use my wins for two things:
- the occasionally foray into 5nl cash/zoom
- play more tournaments with buyins between $1 and $5

i do like tournaments and have had some success. sometimes i think i should play more tourneys, so this is what i am going to do....

i think the wins with tourneys are way less frequent than the cash games (obviously), but that the tourney wins are much larger.... so instead of risking 5nl buyin at 1 table, i may play a few tourneys instead....

tourneys also seem to involve more luck than skill compared to cash... in a tourney you will shove with hands you'd never shove with in a cash game (agree?)

i'm sure a lot of people play this way....

be cool
 
TimovieMan

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in a tourney you will shove with hands you'd never shove with in a cash game (agree?)
That's because you should always have a full stack in cash games. If you only had 10BB left in a cash game, you'd shove the same range as in a tournament.
 
arty220

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No offence, but playing a few hundred hands and winning 4 BI is pretty meaningless. Let me show you my graph for 5NL:

2d8gweq.png


Look at the two points on my graph which I circled. This shows a stretch of 3k hands where I won $83 (that is over 16 BI won at 5NL!). I was on a massive heater and I just kept winning and winning. Now, imagine if those were my first 3k hands at 5NL. I'd think I'm pretty good at poker, right? I'd be talking about moving up to 10NL and 25NL, since I'm such an awesome poker player that is truly crushing 5NL... clearly this is not the case, if you look at the entire graph.

Don't confuse an upswing with being able to beat 5NL over a large sample size.

This is a very detailed and good advice!
 
XXPXXP

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My suggestion is Try it , it worth trying and good luck.
 
SBEP

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U can try the bigger buy in, but i do agree with the other guys, you need a bigger bankroll to play bigger buyin games, 95 is far from enough, and ull play constantly under pressure to perform good, which u know with variance its just impossible no matter how good of a player u are, so get a bigger bankroll or grind it, and then give biger buyin a chance.
 
dbchristy

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I love this forum, Ive learned alot from reading your post.
 
coolDadJimbo

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My bankroll is at 145 presently
Was over 150 a few nights ago
Considering I had 95 five days ago, (and 18 dollars 3 weeks ago) 55 is not a bad increase. I think I am making the right choice in moving up. Most of the increase came from 2nl too and a few tournaments
 
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moosepaw

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Still think it's a ppretty small BR for $5 NL. I'd probably wait until $500 IMHO.
 
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jsh169

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Still think it's a ppretty small BR for $5 NL. I'd probably wait until $500 IMHO.


Way to conservative, way to be at 2nl for the rest of your life. 20 buys is a fine time to take a shot.
 
coolDadJimbo

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Way to conservative, way to be at 2nl for the rest of your life. 20 buys is a fine time to take a shot.


I totally agree.
Any BRM post I've read says 30 average for cash
 
BogdanStark

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all im saying is my experinces have showed me that in live casinos...where you have limits of :

$1-$2

$5-$10

$10-$20

$25-$50

$50-$`100

the best players were generally at the $5-$10 table. They made the least mistakes, played with the most discipline. I think its because the money meant more to them, because they werent rich, werent poor and respected the money more.

I will hang your quote into the framed on the wall =)
Nice work!
 
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