Getting frustrated with 5NL

Was 5-6 BI away from moving up to 10NL, then today have lost 4. Got my money in with the best hands and lost flips etc. Losing a three-way pot with KK vs QQ vs AK (all in pre and the AK won...we had like 100BB stacks as well -.-) has ended play for today haha.

Really want to say f**k it and just move up. I play at Full Tilt and due to the low amount of players, often see the same players, identifying the good/bad players. Im not getting out-played, which is what is annoying me the most I think. I try to avoid pots with good players and not play back at them/mess with them etc. I dunno 5NL is just feeling so trivial and boring. Everyone says to play ABC and tight is right etc, and yeah I do, but its SO BORING.

I might transfer to Stars and see if that helps, with more traffic and a bit of a change.

This has turned into a rant

But seriously, what would you do in my position? Play a bit of 10NL, move to stars, or stop complaining and grind? Thanks guys haha

I got loads of flak for this, but I moved to 25NL and it's a completely different story.

I find it much better to play at this level, solid poker theory seems to hold good here, it's much clearer than at lower levels.

I am doing really well - 3500 hands so far this month, 17.33 bb/100, I am 6 BI up.

In 5NL and 10NL, it's down and dirty, impossible.

Say what you will, if your bank roll can afford it and you are studying and working hard to improve your game, I would say play higher stakes.

Of course, it's not a popular opinion, but it worked for me.

It's boring yes. Takes an effort in itself to do and when you get drawn out on makes it so much worse. You sound tilted. This might be affecting your decisions in some pots, thus affecting your bottom line. I've seen your posts and HH's in other threads and think you could do with being more aggressive early streets with suckout merchants and letting go more on later streets when you have no showdown value. Stars is not easy mate. I'm basing this post on my own recent experience btw.

Yeah enesem. I'm expecting everyone to shoot me down and say if I can't grind up in my own I shouldnt skip.

Any sort of higher stakes theory or slightly advanced or bluffy/ smart plays just seem utterly pointless and wrong MOST of the time. Not even some of the time. Because villains will make strange/ unexplainable decisions so often, consequently owning your ass.

lol @ 3.5k hands enseem :laugh:

Higher stakes theory? advanced or bluffy/smart plays? Are they really that smart or advanced if they are not working ?
like I'm just really curious to what types of advanced theory/bluffs/smart plays you might be talking about. . .

Only lazy people say these things... and stuff like "omg they respect me at 25 and 50+ move up immediately lolz"


post hands and stats that is the only way anybody is going to help you.

To answer your question in the OP, just stop complaining and grind.

At 25NL I can read the game better, and I am naturally playing a tighter but more aggressive style.

Games get to all in situations a lot less,.

Here is what I am finding - bet sizing is really important, as is position. You face a lot more re-raises, but if you are solid on your range you can usually play on and fold if it doesn't look good.

Of course, I have lost a number fo hands whan I was outdrawn or well beat (kk vs AA for example), but I am happy with how I play even if I lose - I understand the plays a lot better.

You just do NOT get the 60/5 donks hoovering up all the chips, that drove me mad at 5/10NL.

I have spent 3 months at 5 and 10, in no way was I crushing it, but I felt enough was enough, I couldn't learn any more there.

If you want to try it, then chip up, play only a single table, play very tight at first, don't be afraid to re-raise instead of call (ie against button steals), if you do enter a hand, ask how you would handle a re-raise first.

All good theory gets you a head start. You will also spot the really good players (they multi-table), I flag them with a colour and just don't mix with them OP unless I am very strong.

You should try, if you have the bankroll for it.

Beware of variance too, but here you can easily see how solid play works in the long run.

redwards92 said:

lol @ 3.5k hands enseem :laugh:

Higher stakes theory? advanced or bluffy/smart plays? Are they really that smart or advanced if they are not working ?
like I'm just really curious to what types of advanced theory/bluffs/smart plays you might be talking about. . .

Only lazy people say these things... and stuff like "omg they respect me at 25 and 50+ move up immediately lolz"


post hands and stats that is the only way anybody is going to help you.

To answer your question in the OP, just stop complaining and grind.

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Brace yourselves, here comes the flak....

you shouldn't be moving up and down levels in a matter of days, you'll know when your ready to move up. If your fluctuating up and down then you need to keep grinding until you have the volume to prove the ups outweighed the downs. Just keep working at 5NL until your destroying the game then move up.


dude, at 5NL there is no poker theory or anything like that, just play it straight, get big hands, and bet for value. your betting range should consist of a lot of value and protection, you shouldn't be trying to get better to fold - at 5NL better will never fold
when you have like 25k hands if your BB/hr rate is astronomical you can consider moving up - 100k is usually the benchmark for an "initial assessment"

I would never recommend moving up or down with 3.5k hands, if your up 15-20 bb/hr through 3.5k there's a 99.9999999999999684% chance your a fish on a heater and the decimal leftover is that your the next Phil Galfond

enesem said:

You just do NOT get the 60/5 donks hoovering up all the chips, that drove me mad at 5/10NL.

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I'll play against 60/5 donks all day every day. How does poker theory not hold against these guys? Their ranges are so easily defined - especially when acting aggressively - that you can play nearly perfect against them. Obviously you're not going to beat them every session and every hand, but that's variance.


@OP It's hard to give anyone advice on whether or not you should move up without knowing your bankroll situation, win rate, sample size, etc. It sounds like you've hit a bad patch of variance.

Maybe more tables would just make ABC easier to/ less boring to play.

Sandbag, the basic theory works but anything more than that is pointless and doesn't work, which is why it's so boring. I'm beginning to question how much I'm actually improving by playing 5nl when the correct way to play is to be totally predictable and further up in stakes will get you absolutely no where.

I've been playing for a few months, and am nearly rolled for 10nl, but I see people spending years at the Micros?? AND people say that 25nl, 10nl, 5nl are basically the same!?

akaRobbo said:

Maybe more tables would just make ABC easier to/ less boring to play.

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+1, I four-table and watch videos or something on youtube. It makes playing ABC (the optimal way to play at the micros), much more bearable

3.5k hands confirmed decent sample.



Increasing numbers of tables only going to make you spew faster.

Stop looking cashier, if you don´t know that was 4-5bi´s away from 10nl you will not be so mad when have a bad day.

I just left the cash games for tonight because of idiots like the one below.

Yes, it should be easy to take their money, but sitting around waiting for a monster just to call someone because they're shoving every hand is BS. It was happening on all 4 tables I was at, so I closed and moved to 4 new ones, same shyte.

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/8174721_38ADD1C4E6

tbh I spew more playing less tables. I have more time to think and level myself or something I don't know. Obviously player/style dependent but I like to be in sort of a more or less "auto pilot" where I kind of quickly go through the hand in my hand make a decision and move on before I start leveling myself into making terrible decisions lol. And I for some reason just always bet more and fold less when I have less tables up and I really just have no idea why :laugh:

I need at least 4 tables of rush/zoom or like 24 tables of FR regular tables and I just can't handle playing 6max reg tables because they always break and get short and that tilts the **** out of me when im playing a lot of tables and have to go and try find another table to load up

although I can't disagree that I start missing a lot of spots and forgetting the action in hands if I play to many but 4 zoom or rush is pretty close to perfect for me and like 20+ of FR is what i used to do when I was bored of zoom at 2NL on stars but haven't really played it since. The games were always so easy at 2NL on stars and I just played kind of nitty like 13/12 or something like that if I remember correctly so it was never very difficult to keep up especially considering it is FR.

4 6max zoom or rush seems to be what I enjoy most.

SeaRun said:

I just left the cash games for tonight because of idiots like the one below.

Yes, it should be easy to take their money, but sitting around waiting for a monster just to call someone because they're shoving every hand is BS. It was happening on all 4 tables I was at, so I closed and moved to 4 new ones, same shyte.

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/8174721_38ADD1C4E6

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You are mad because people are shoving 92o? Just widen your calling range

/Logan/ said:

Increasing numbers of tables only going to make you spew faster.

Stop looking cashier, if you don´t know that was 4-5bi´s away from 10nl you will not be so mad when have a bad day.

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Spew? I'm beating 5nl? Usually playing 3 tables (6max)

If I stopped looking when would I know to move up?

You don't need to have a monster to call off a shove vs a maniac.

Obviously in FR it's harder to pick a spot to call off light but you're in the almost perfect seat to do it.

IPlay said:

You are mad because people are shoving 92o? Just widen your calling range

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I didn't say I was mad, I said it was bullshyte.

With all due respect, if I want to go play "coin flip" for $5 a pop, I'll go play roulette and bet on black or red, or even or odd, or something else like blindfolded blackjack.

We all play this game for different reasons. Mine, for playing 0.01/0.02 is to learn the game to feel more comfortable moving up to higher stakes. And regardless of what anyone says, in my honest opinion, this kind of horseshyte play prepares one for absolutely nothing to do with well-played poker.

[/RANT]

Yeah 5nl confirmed impossible/annoying/boring, it's fine guys move up and leave the 60/5 fish to me

micromachine said:

Yeah 5nl confirmed impossible/annoying/boring, it's fine guys move up and leave the 60/5 fish to me

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Isn't it past your bedtime???

SeaRun said:

I didn't say I was mad, I said it was bullshyte.

With all due respect, if I want to go play "coin flip" for $5 a pop, I'll go play Roulette and bet on black or red, or even or odd, or something else like blindfolded Blackjack.

We all play this game for different reasons. Mine, for playing 0.01/0.02 is to learn the game to feel more comfortable moving up to higher stakes. And regardless of what anyone says, in my honest opinion, this kind of horseshyte play prepares one for absolutely nothing to do with well-played poker.

[/RANT]

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You didn't say it exactly but your rant got the point across. You think 92o vs any random hand is a coin flip? Lol You are just angry and tilting and don't know how to adjust to this kind of villain which is adjusting your call off range. Don't get angry and leave tables because a villain is stacking off alot, it is free money.

It may not be the way you WANT to play poker but when it comes down to it we play poker to make money and the most money to be made is off a villain like that. Just learn to adjust and take advantage of his play and stacks will come your way.

IPlay said:

You didn't say it exactly but your rant got the point across. You think 92o vs any random hand is a coin flip? Lol You are just angry and tilting and don't know how to adjust to this kind of villain which is adjusting your call off range. Don't get angry and leave tables because a villain is stacking off alot, it is free money.

It may not be the way you WANT to play poker but when it comes down to it we play poker to make money and the most money to be made is off a villain like that. Just learn to adjust and take advantage of his play and stacks will come your way.

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The bolded statements tell me you're just trolling. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, I apologize in advance.

SeaRun said:

And regardless of what anyone says, in my honest opinion, this kind of horseshyte play prepares one for absolutely nothing to do with well-played poker.

[/RANT]

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This. Also, think about how much you need to grind up and how much you need to win, to even be properly rolled for, say, 50NL (still even considered micro stakes). $1000 is minimum (20 BI), think about how long that is going to take, and how much are you actually "improving" as a player in this time and at this level? Playing the same ABC game haha, and having donks suck out on you regularly because of how frequent they recklessly gamble and risk their "$5". Im beginning to ask is it really worth grinding from the bottom...people even say that 5,10 and 25 aren't even that much different!

Its tempting to deposit for higher stakes and see how it goes, adapt if it seems a different style and play an actual game of poker with people

SeaRun said:

The bolded statements tell me you're just trolling. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, I apologize in advance.

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how could that possibly be trolling?

was your post a troll post?! WP!

also lol robbo you go right ahead and depsoit 1K to play 50NL GL with that man i'm sure you will just crush the reg infested player pools at 50NL with 0 fish that you don't beat anyway because they just suckout and don't fold to your high stakes theory/smart plays.

IPlay said:

It may not be the way you WANT to play poker but when it comes down to it we play poker to make money and the most money to be made is off a villain like that. Just learn to adjust and take advantage of his play and stacks will come your way.

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This is so wrong. The main reason I play is through enjoyment and it's something I want to get better at, the opportunity to make money adds to that. If you're playing micro stakes and the main reason is to "make money", then wtf Sir.