Folding to too many blind steals

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Deceitful_Frank

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Hey guys, I have been busy this afternoon plugging a few leaks (stopped calling in the SB with non-PPs for the time being) and tidying up my strategy. I got to thinking...

I fold to blind steals too often!

I play 10NL 6max at about 19/17 and my fold to blind steal is 91% over a large sample. This I feel is too high and I would sooner the figure be below 80 as I feel I may be an easy target to the savvy reg to my right (not that I choose to have these here as I'd rather they were opposite but whatever)

I have recently stopped 3betting light from OOP without solid reads as the average fold to resteals at my stakes is like 47%... one MAJOR leak plugged!

So a guy who is stealing with a 28% range and calling with half of it has gotta be worth 3betting for value often right?

Below is a 28% stealing range:
 

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Deceitful_Frank

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Assuming he only lets go of half of it when I 3bet, what would be my maximum range I could re-steal with here?
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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Aha!

It would appear that my fold to steal % is about the same for my SB as for my big blind. I think the main leak for me is giving up my BB too easily and though my SB fold % is little high, I think it could be prudent to take extra care with only 0.5bb invested and at the worst position at the table.

I would like to concentrate my efforts to bring my fold BB to steal % down to a more sensible <70%.

This would even out my average fold to steal and brind it comfortable below 80% and I'd be less of an obvious target when I do find myself to the left of a thinking player :)
 
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JOEBOB69

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D Frank if you try to bring your FBB to steal % down to <70% thats going to be a huge leak imo.You would be playing way to many hands oop,with a weak range.
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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D Frank if you try to bring your FBB to steal % down to <70% thats going to be a huge leak imo.You would be playing way to many hands oop,with a weak range.

Thanks for you reply man. I am well aware of the power of position but IMO you can use careful play to deny villian this advantage.

Wouldn't it be a huge leak to allow villian to steal with such a wide range and us getting such great odds? Plus, if we pretty much always check whether we hit or not, we can effectively reclaim the button for the flop and the turn (we are gonna call one street here often anyway)

We only have one difficult decision to make and thats on the river. By then however we should have prenty of info no?
 
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ZCorky

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I just don't believe that folding too often in the blinds can ever be a leak at the micro's. I am concerned that your math behind 'not letting the stealer instantly profit from his steal' is actually going to put you in a position where he is profiting more on later streets.

I also don't think your steal % is anywhere near average. 25% seems really low and I am going to be folding a lot to such a tight range? (You actually want to play 20% of your range against 25% of villain range OOP)
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Thanks for you reply man. I am well aware of the power of position but IMO you can use careful play to deny villian this advantage.

Wouldn't it be a huge leak to allow villian to steal with such a wide range and us getting such great odds? Plus, if we pretty much always check whether we hit or not, we can effectively reclaim the button for the flop and the turn (we are gonna call one street here often anyway)

We only have one difficult decision to make and thats on the river. By then however we should have prenty of info no?
Flat the raise with some hands not many aj,aq,99,10 10 sometimes for example.You really need to 3bet or fold most hands OOP.Go through your data base and see how much you have won flating a preflop raise in the blinds.
 
c9h13no3

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I'm in the "let them steal from you and don't worry too much about it" camp.
 
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baudib1

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BLind defense is an MTT thing really.
 
LuckyChippy

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If they call as wide as 50% then widen your 3-bet value range OOP and never ever 3-bet bluff. Call PP's but be prepared to play without hitting your set. Sometimes flat something like AJ but I can be 3betting them against a specific opponent that flats 50% after stealing.
 
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megl

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Try 3-betting from the blinds when a nitty player tries to steal your blinds. In my experience this type of player folds to resteal more often than you would expect.
(I play full ring, and in my world a nitty player is someone with VPIP less than 8-ish)
 
BigJamo

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Nice Thread, But your brain is going to explode if you keep it up.

If your cards are playable, check him, let him think you have nothing, then get him to bet himself into trouble. Then, the next time it happens, you have the opportunity to 3-bet him and watch him fold.
 
Traggy

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Try 3-betting from the blinds when a nitty player tries to steal your blinds. In my experience this type of player folds to resteal more often than you would expect.
(I play full ring, and in my world a nitty player is someone with VPIP less than 8-ish)


So, correct me if I am wrong but this is the complete opposite of what you want to do? Someone who has a low VPIP and a low PFR raising you, showing nitty signs, more time than not you are going to run into a monster hand. This would only be a good move if you had the steal attempt stat as well.
 
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papatango123

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you need to look at the fold to 3bet stat if that is high then try a resteal.
whats your winrate from the blinds?
 
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RamdeeBen

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Try 3-betting from the blinds when a nitty player tries to steal your blinds. In my experience this type of player folds to resteal more often than you would expect.
(I play full ring, and in my world a nitty player is someone with VPIP less than 8-ish)

I don't agree with this either, in the slightest. You know if a nitty player raises the blinds, then he isn't stealing...at the very least he has to top over cards.
 
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fx20736

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So, correct me if I am wrong but this is the complete opposite of what you want to do? Someone who has a low VPIP and a low PFR raising you, showing nitty signs, more time than not you are going to run into a monster hand. This would only be a good move if you had the steal attempt stat as well.

not necessarily. A nit may be open raising small pocket pairs,some Broadways, suited Aces, etc. OTB and when they get 3bet they often don't know what to do other than fold because they don't want to risk their stack with marginal hands.
 
Cafeman

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So, correct me if I am wrong but this is the complete opposite of what you want to do? Someone who has a low VPIP and a low PFR raising you, showing nitty signs, more time than not you are going to run into a monster hand. This would only be a good move if you had the steal attempt stat as well.
I would combine VPIP/PFR with their ATS stat to give me more info. For example, if they are 9/7 but their ATS is ummm 25 (for example) they're obviously opening up on the button and/or stealing with a wide(r) range, and for a nit to be 3bet in this situation... fold is the normal response.

However, if they don't play position (e.g. ATS = 8) then no, just fold everything except the stuff that you beat their range with. And anyway, if I am on a table with a nit then I tend to want to be sitting to their right so it's me who does the stealing and not the other way round!
 
Cafeman

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not necessarily. A nit may be open raising small pocket pairs,some Broadways, suited Aces, etc. OTB and when they get 3bet they often don't know what to do other than fold because they don't want to risk their stack with marginal hands.
And I would say that they'll call a PP and reraise/shove a premium PP or AKs or something. So, given that they call, a reasonable assumption is setmining, and they won't get their set a lot of the time (88% or so?) which means that a healthy cbet is also required to finish them off. As soon as they play back at you then you need to fold before their chips hit the cloth!
 
BigJamo

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So is that what Im doing wrong,

no seroiusly, Give as good as you get, its a harsh world we live in.
 
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LEONXIVXI

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Patrick Antonius is good defender of his bb!)3 bet is work vn!
 
Kountess

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I agree 3 betting at the right time but not every time. I agree with BIGJAMO your brain will explode if you try to defend your BB 50% of the time!
 
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