Folding on the river after being strong throughout the hand

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FlexNYC

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How frequently do you fold on the river after having raised pre-flop, bet on the flop and bet on the turn?

Classic scenario: You hold pocket 9s, raise 3-5xBB get two callers. River comes 9c, Jh, 4h. You made your set so you bet pot size of 1.2x pot. You have one guy folding, but another guy calling. You figure now that the guy either hit his jack (maybe had AJ pre-flop) or the guy is on a draw. Turn is 3s. Again, you bet pot-size on the turn and the guy calls.

River comes a heart, potentially making a flush draw if the guy was chasing (and his betting pattern--calling as opposed to re-raising--indicates he was chasing). What do you do now? You're the first to act: 1) Do you check the river after being so strong throughout the hand? or 2) Do you bet 1/2-2/3 pot on the river?

Issue with checking the river is you're essentially waiving a white flag and giving up on the hand: it's good if you think the guy made his flush and would like to cut your losses, however painful that may be since you've already invested so much in the hand. Issue with betting is you're throwing good money after bad if the guy did in fact make his flush, and then comes over the top and goes all-in after you bet the river.

What would you do in this situation? 1) Do you bet the river? and 2) Do you shove at any point in the hand (maybe on the turn)? Or 3) Do you check at any point (on the turn) ?
 
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Prase

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I'm just regurgitating what I've been hearing on podcasts...

1 Q: What's your take on the villain's image/style?

2 Q: Why bet on the Turn if you put him on AhJh?

Received wisdom says, check the Turn, bet the River. Keep the pot small. If he bets, you can reduce his range [tho I've no real knowledge how this is done!].

Also, your bet didn't stomp on a flush draw, if that's what scared you. Maybe a stronger bet would've worked?

3 Q: Stack sizes? SNG or tourney?

I believe those 'who know' would say value bet the River.

4 Q: When raising into pot preflop, did you have a plan for what to do if you hit trips, then Turn and River? Dealing with raise/reraise?

During a game, if you choke on the River a couple of times, then everyone wants a piece of you..... Speaking from experience, naturally!

What did you do, and what happened?
 
Zeppelin89

Zeppelin89

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I would make a big bet or push on the turn. A smart player will fold a flush draw (depending on stacks, player type, tourney, etc.). If you get called by the flush draw, oh well, you're still ahead and at least you got your money in while you were ahead. Just my opinion.
 
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MainEventOrBust

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I'm not sure if I'm first to act, or last.

If its checked to me, I check behind, since I can't call a shove unless I have a sick read on him. He isn't going to call many hands that don't beat me.

If I'm first to act, I'm gonna bet/fold to a raise, to prevent the shove that is going to come if I check here. Don't bet so small that it looks like a defensive bet either. Make it look like you want the call. You'd be shocked how many times two pair will make a crying call without a flush either.
 
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Coramoor_

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here's your main problem, you're betting too big, pot size or more generally indicates a bluff in no limit, when you're sitting on trips, if you're in late position, you could just check it out if you're afraid of a flush, but in early it's almost a must bet, you could get reraised, which would suck but then it's up to your read, but if you check, you're giving him the chance to bluff you out of the hand, never give control to your opponent if you can avoid it, bet 2/3 pot repeatedly and 95% of the time after firing three times they'll fold at some stage

but like i said, your bet size indicates either overcards or mid/low pair, which when you hit trips on the flop is a rather pointless move because unless they've hit, they are very likely to fold, the goal with trips is to trap without trapping yourself, so you have to watch flush and straight draws, but to your specific scenario, my recommendations are above so good luck and try this, tell me what you think about it after, cause it tends to work for me
 
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FlexNYC

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If I remember correctly I checked the river once I saw the scare card, and villain checked behind me. My original instincts were correct : The guy had made his Jack. I ended up taking down the pot with my trips.

However, thinking about it now I think another issue to consider is that I was out-of-position in this hand. I would obv prefer to be acting behind him to see what he does. Ex: If he checks the turn then I know he's on a draw and I can at least strongly consider shoving on the turn. Being out of position, I had no idea what this guy was on. Good thing my read on him was pretty accurate despite being out of position.

If I were to replay the hand, I would probably fire again on the river because in the hands of a smarter player he would have probably seized on the opening I gave him and fired pot-size bet on the river to represent the flush. But the guy played it safe like me; who knows: maybe he was afraid that I actually made the flush and was slow playing it. ie: checking on the river after I made my flush, so he could bet, and then I would shove (which happens all the time).

All in all, I have to say that flopping trips while also flopping straight or flush draws for villain is one of the worst situations I encounter. Coz ur protecting ur hand on the flop and river but if you have a guy who's pot committed you're not going to get rid of him and you're screwed if he hits on the river.

Next time I have trips against guys who are chasing, I'm just going to shove on the turn. If I lose so be it, at least I will have protected my pot. and if the guy is donkish enough to go all-in on a draw then I'll know I'll eventually get my money back ... and then some. :D
 
Deco

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Make a half pot bet for value, fold to a raise.

If he has a flush he is going to bet the river if we check.
If he has a Jack he will check the river behind if we check.

The former situation is unavoidable, we will be losing a bet here unless we can fold a set here.
So we may as well make the bet ourselves to get value out of AJ (if indeed it is in his range).
That is if we can fold to a raise, if he is aggressive enough to raise this on a bluff then check/calling has its merits.
 
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