FOLDING TO A RE-REAISE

Sometimes I think I call reraises way to often. I'll pop it up and try to steal, always with cards that atleast have potential, then I get reraised. I don't like always calling a reraise but I do it thinking there is a bunch of money out there already. Even when I think I might be a huge underdog I call. If the flop comes my way I can bust a big hand and get a big stack. I would ike to point out I usually avoid calling reraises against short stacks. Would it be more profitable for me to just auto-fold to a reraise or do I keep playing it the way I have been. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing more than it's worth. Any comments would be appreciated, thank you.

well sometimes folding to a reraise is simply the right thing to do especilly if you are only attempting to steal ther is no shame in throwing away your handto a reraise because mot of the time you are beat and the other 2% you are getting bullied in whiccase i would say to try to get a read on the table bfore you try to "steal" the pot because i have found that the early aggressers usually bust more times than not

im not stealing early. i dont even think about stealing until antes have kicked in. and it gets to a point where u have to steal. i just have trouble folding when there is a bunch of money in the pot.

JCW78 said:

Sometimes I think I call reraises way to often. I'll pop it up and try to steal, always with cards that atleast have potential, then I get reraised. I don't like always calling a reraise but I do it thinking there is a bunch of money out there already. Even when I think I might be a huge underdog I call. If the flop comes my way I can bust a big hand and get a big stack. I would ike to point out I usually avoid calling reraises against short stacks. Would it be more profitable for me to just auto-fold to a reraise or do I keep playing it the way I have been. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing more than it's worth. Any comments would be appreciated, thank you.

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What Kinda "cards that at least have potential" are you calling with. Anything suited or connected has potential to make a great hand, doesnt mean you should be flat calling with them. Plus the fact that you mention you are on the steal, of course you should fold in that sense. There is no way to really say fold or call without some kind of stats or examples. If your raising all the time, your gonna get reraised alot, because people will figure you for raising lite. Calling reraises usually isnt a great idea unless the reraiser has a tendency for reraising w/ junk. Just my 2cents

not just anything suited. suited connectors down to 67 and suited one gappers down to 10 8.

what if its a hand like AQ. this happened last night. I had an M of 16 and raised with the AQo. We were 3 handed and the BB raised me. Now I can either shove or fold but I knew I couldnt call here. I thought about it and let it go. Guy showed KK.

I believe you need to just have more discipline with yourself. Are we talking about classic matches of KK s QQ, AA vs KK ?? What kind of hands are we talking about here pre-flop? It takes alot of discipline to know the raiser and then have to fold such cases of KK against AA. Why reraise and push in if you are having a bad track record? Why not just call and see what the flop gives you.

Folding to a re-raise pre-flop is sometimes just the right, smart thing to do. If I'm playing cash games, I will usually fold if I raised with KQs or similar hands 3xBB and I get a re-raise of 6xBB or 8xBB. Clearly the guy is pushing either KK or AA or even JJ. If it's a loose player then I'll call, but if it's someone who hasn't played for the last 20 hands and is all of a sudden re-raising pre-flop my spidey sense starts and I will just throw away the cards. But it really depends on several other factors, most importantly: stack size (the larger the more I will tend to call re-raises); position and number of players involved.

Note: In cash games it's easier to lay down a re-raise because there are no antes to steal so chances that someone is just re-raising for the fun of it doesn't make that much sense to me. (Unless it's short stack who's trying to pick up some blinds for a few more rounds of play).

In late-stage tournaments, things can get out of control pretty quickly. Check out pokerstars.tv broadcast of the apr 2 6-max nlhe game. eastgate and moorman1 were both in it.

I don't remember the exact players but p1 raised 6xBB UTG; everyone folds except for the button who reraises 10xBB; p1 re-raises to 18xBB and the button goes 24x. P1 then just goes all-in and shows QQ, only to realize that he was up against AA. Aces won and p1 was sent home packing.

Moral of the story: unless you have the absolute nuts pre-flop (AA) I wouldn't feel comfortable re-raising, then re-re-raising then going all-in with any other hand. Granted it's very tough to fold QQ but why go all-in? I would have called the button's re-raise because I had a hand, and I want to see the flop. If the flop is friendly (low cards, no overcards, or if I make a set) then I'm going to explode and go gangbusters on my opponent. But if I miss then I'll just pull in my horns and live to fight another day. Better than kissing your tournament goodbye after 9hrs of play. Oh, and did I mention that p1 was 3 positions from being ITM.

JCW78 said:

im not stealing early. i dont even think about stealing until antes have kicked in. and it gets to a point where u have to steal. i just have trouble folding when there is a bunch of money in the pot.

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What antes? There are no antes in a ring game. tsk tsk tsk for thinking about tournament poker only. Then again the person that was asking for input really didn't specify the game type. But, when someone asks would it be more profitable I think ring game.

But, I think it really doesn't matter the game type. A lot of times you are putting a bet out there to see where you are at. A re-raise is telling you something from the other player. And, many times it's telling you to fold.

It depends on what hand you have. If it's a top pair, low kicker, I'd fold to a tight player. It also depends on what read you have on the other guy, stack size, positioning, etc. A lot of factors come into play. A check raise is more often than not a trap.

JCW78 said:

Sometimes I think I call reraises way to often. I'll pop it up and try to steal, always with cards that atleast have potential, then I get reraised.

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IMO if you're trying to steal you should know who you're stealing against. If you're keeping stats of the players at your table then you should be able to see how often the players to your left are folding to steal attempts, as well as how often they are 3betting pre flop. Depending on those numbers you can get a feel as to whether or not they are 3betting you lightly - if you think they are then your best line may be 4 betting them since they are probably on a wide range.

If you're playing against a blind defender then you should probably just leave him alone unless you have a good feel for how he plays and believe you can take it from him on the flop and later streets a good majority of the time.

JCW78 said:

I would ike to point out I usually avoid calling reraises against short stack.

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I would avoid playing marginal hands against short stacks because the implied odds just aren't there. You're very rarely going to outplay them on the board because they are generally pot committed and shoving any 2. Only play back at them with top cards as most short stacks are generally very tight.

Unless you have nuts pre-flop (AA) I wouldn't feel comfortable re-raising, then re-re-raising then going all-in with any other hand.
Any other hands makes you cry

Why don't you just try checking these "hands with potential" and try to get a free look at the next card.

Then it is much easier for you to get away from your hand and you can't go bust.

I know it is better to be in control of the hand, but you don't have to all the time and it can work out cheaper and disguise your hand if you play the way I mentioned and hit a monster.

its not worth it to reraise without AA here so just try a flatcall and see how well you hit the flop and take your decision from there

if i will have position after the flop i may be more inclined to call. has he made this play before? then i might be more inclined to shove. how strong is my hand? oh coarse it has lots to do with my choose. if its likely to be dominated than most likely i'll fold. have your steals been working? if so let it go and try again. but smooth calling to see if you hit then letting it go. just weak poker IMO. as most of the time you missed a flop.

JCW78 said:

Sometimes I think I call reraises way to often. I'll pop it up and try to steal, always with cards that atleast have potential, then I get reraised. I don't like always calling a reraise but I do it thinking there is a bunch of money out there already. Even when I think I might be a huge underdog I call.

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Anytime you think you are beat, fold - the times you are wrong will never equal the times you are right. If you have a marginal hand always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt until proven different - don't assume your opponent is playing junk or bluffing until a) you know they will do it and b) you know how to tell if they're doing it.

First off: calling re-raises OOP is generally a bad idea with weak or mediocre hands unless effective stacks ensure implied odds are there.

Second off: you shouldn't raise without knowing how you would handle a re-raise (i.e. don't raise the blinds because its your button because you think you have to ... do it because you think they will fold, or because you think they will stack off weak OOP, or because you have a tight image). Think about the plays you are making and why, not because you've been told its optimal!

I think something that has really helped me with my NLH game is running PokerTracker or Holdem Manager HUD's when I play. It sometimes ensures that I don't play too loose and stay around the 20-20 VP-PF line most sessions. The idea here is that VP (voluntaringly putting money in the pot) shouldn't that far off from the amount of times you are PF (preflop raising). There are def some online posts that explain optimal VP-PF numbers for different games but its something to think about investing in.

Also, something to consider is how deep stacked you and the re-raiser are playing (assuming NHL or PLO), since this greatly affects your decision. If you can stack someone for 200-300BB ... it becomes profitable to call re-raises with suited connectors or small pairs (or in PLO with weak drawing hands - like 5567 double suited), where as if one of you is short-stacked it doesn't (which you already touched on in your original post)

I fold in a re-raise if my hand is not that good and if the flop didn't help. I re-raise if others are checking for me to scare them, but if they did a good job bluffing me, hooray for them.

I find that calling re raises can be very bad because you need to determine the villains range, and make a lot of tough decisions with a subpar hand. If you are holding suited connectors or something like 88-JJ, then by all means call the re raise if it won't cripple you.

it all depends on a couple things.
who's raising? if it's a really tight player who reraises you, its often pretty easy to put them on jj+, so if they have a deep enough stack calling with small pairs can be worth it, given the fact that if you hit a set they're likely stacking off
also how much the raise is, obv don't call a massive reraise with suited connectors, but if you're getting odds don't be afraid to play