Fold vs 3bet Stats

honeycrush

honeycrush

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I have a feeling that this is a huge leak of mine. Please could someone give me an idea of the percentage range that would be good for 2NL/5NL (both FR and 6max) for folding vs a 3bet? Currently I'm folding only 29% in SB and 32% in EP but 50-75% in MP/CO & BTN. Total = 40% Should it be higher?

Thanks!
 
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GWU73

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It looks like your fold to 3bet rate is way to low. You should be folding in the 70% range if you are playing players who try to exploit your raise/fold dynamic pre flop (theoretically this is close to optimal). If most of your opponents are only 3betting strong hands it is ok to have a higher fold range, and only lower your calling / 4betting ranges vs. frequent 3betters. For the micros I am usually around 75% for a 1000 hand session. - + about 5%. I only target players with >80% fold to 3bet rates for bluff 3bets.
 
honeycrush

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Thanks GWU73. I had a feeling it was much too low. I am flatting way too many 3bets. I rarely 4-bet unless I want to get my stack in PF (AA or KK) so all other hands I tend to mostly call with. Huge leak. I'm playing zoom so mostly have no stats on other players.

My flop cbet is 78% so I think I'm calling a lot and then cbetting to take the pot. Cbet success is 51%. Are those figures about right or should my cbet be lower as well as my fold vs 3bet higher?

Also to give more info, my turn cbet is 49% and turn cbet succes 48%.

Thanks again for your help.
 
brank

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First of all at the lowest levels you can pretty much assume that 3 bets are big hands from everybody but the obvious maniac so you should be folding a lot to these. It shouldn't matter too much between 6 max and full ring except that when playing full ring it will be slightly more likely to be a bigger hand. Also full ring provides more chances of being OOP.

Your Fto3bet stat is kind of backwards too. If anything you should be calling more 3 bets IP than OOP.


My flop cbet is 78% so I think I'm calling a lot and then cbetting to take the pot. Cbet success is 51%.

I think you might be confusing the term "cbet". A "cbet" is when you are the raiser preflop and are continuing the aggression.

If you called preflop and are leading into the raiser then that is called a "donk bet"
 
acky100

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probs fold to 3bet of 80% at 2 and 5nl would be awesome. well 70% plus anyways

obv depending on how loose you are, if you are a nit like 12/10 then i can see it being like 50% or so, looser than 70% would be pretty optimal overall
 
honeycrush

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First of all at the lowest levels you can pretty much assume that 3 bets are big hands from everybody but the obvious maniac so you should be folding a lot to these. It shouldn't matter too much between 6 max and full ring except that when playing full ring it will be slightly more likely to be a bigger hand. Also full ring provides more chances of being OOP.

Your Fto3bet stat is kind of backwards too. If anything you should be calling more 3 bets IP than OOP.

I think this is because when I raise OOP I have a very strong hand so don't usually call, just 4-bet. When I raise IP I might have a marginal hand so just fold if raised by the blinds.


I think you might be confusing the term "cbet". A "cbet" is when you are the raiser preflop and are continuing the aggression.

If you called preflop and are leading into the raiser then that is called a "donk bet"

Thanks brank. I'm a bit confused now. :confused: So if I raise and then someone 3-bets and I call, am I not still cbetting if I'm first to act as I was the initial raiser? Is it the person who last raises that cbets? Trying to find "donk bet" stats in HEM2 but no joy so far...
 
brank

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I think this is because when I raise OOP I have a very strong hand so don't usually call, just 4-bet. When I raise IP I might have a marginal hand so just fold if raised by the blinds.

Ya, that makes sense. I kinda overlooked the fact that you'd be strong in EP and 4 betting some of the time and not necessarily calling. It still seems like a too low of percentage though.



Thanks brank. I'm a bit confused now. :confused: So if I raise and then someone 3-bets and I call, am I not still cbetting if I'm first to act as I was the initial raiser? Is it the person who last raises that cbets? Trying to find "donk bet" stats in HEM2 but no joy so far...

Right. The person who 3bets is the one who'd be the cbettor.

I dont use HEM but with Poker Tracker I believe "donk bet" is a custom stat that I had to load onto the program.
 
honeycrush

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probs fold to 3bet of 80% at 2 and 5nl would be awesome. well 70% plus anyways

obv depending on how loose you are, if you are a nit like 12/10 then i can see it being like 50% or so, looser than 70% would be pretty optimal overall

Thanks acky. I'm going to have to work hard to find that fold button! The more experience I have playing at 2NL the more I suspect that the best (most profitable) strategy is to be a nit...
 
hackmeplz

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It matters a lot how wide you're opening. If you only open QQ+/AK then 40% is really high. If you're opening wide then yeah it's way too low.
 
honeycrush

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Right. The person who 3bets is the one who'd be the cbettor.

I dont use HEM but with Poker Tracker I believe "donk bet" is a custom stat that I had to load onto the program.

Right - got it. I'm still looking for the donk bet. It would be an interesting statistic to study. Anyone know where to find this in HEM?
 
honeycrush

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It matters a lot how wide you're opening. If you only open QQ+/AK then 40% is really high. If you're opening wide then yeah it's way too low.

Thanks hackmeplz - yes it's way too low because I'm not that tight. My FR VPIP stat is 18. I need to tighten up!
 
hackmeplz

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Thanks hackmeplz - yes it's way too low because I'm not that tight. My FR VPIP stat is 18. I need to tighten up!

pfr is much more relevant. What's your pfr?
 
honeycrush

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pfr is much more relevant. What's your pfr?

Only 14. I never open limp ever. But I do call raises a lot with small and medium PPs hoping to set mine. If I'm first in though I raise both. I also call with marginal hands like AJ and KQ hoping to hit the flop. Mostly I "donk bet" when checked to whether I hit or not and get away with it but it would probably be best all round if I just folded these hands I guess.
 
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