Flopzilla says 46o > A6o , what does this mean?

Im pretty sure flopzilla no limit range ranking arent about hot and cold equity but i dont understand , for what exactly are they made for? how is it possible that 46o > A6o? i would never choose 46o over A6o for stealing.

single gappers have great straight potentials while A6 does not.

Also in regards to stealing if you shove A6 and get called you are probably dominated, 46 on the other hand your live so 46 vs say AK has more equity than A6 vs AK.

Not sure what exactly the numbers your looking at in flopzilla are etc, perhaps you might want to post some screenshots to see exactly what your referring to.

Im looking the *no limit* category numbers , i just went today to check how a 50% range looks like and it had 46o instead of A6o on it , i found that very strange , i understand that 46o offers some straight potential but i dont blind steal at 100bb with 46o instead of A6o for any reason.

A6o has blockers and its easier to play it postflop too , are these rankings for all in equity or for postflop playability?

Even if they are for all in equity im pretty sure A6o is still above 46o , at least pokerstove said so.

Tgen said:

how is it possible that 46o > A6o? i would never choose 46o over A6o for stealing.

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perhaps it is because A6o is only playable preflop, raise, reraise or shove there is not possibility to call or if the villain flats your bet then unless you get a flop with trips or 2 pairs is difficult to continue from there,

meanwhile 64o gives a small chance to continue after flop if the flop brings 3 low cards,

however imho for stealing i will go only with A6o raising or folding!

things poker, such aq has more chances to win against 22 men as king hand, sometimes kt suit has more chances to kq or J9s sometimes have more equity than q9.
All this told me a friend studying with a poker program.

Both hands can get you into trouble, but 46 is likely to result in smaller loses, and when it does win, the pots will likely be much larger. The reason is simple; 46o has no value unless you hit a strong hand or draw. A8o Is often just strong enough to continue until you lose a significant pot.

Oh. Thank you, now I'll shove with 46 instead of A6.

4 6 is a hand that can flop well = and not be dominated

A6 prob 60 pct of time you flop and ace and get action you are beat and totally dominated. Only pots you win will be small pots.

obv 4 6 doesn't play well against A6 but it is a much better hand. Even though they are both garbage and I wouldn't play either except maybe on the button or from the blinds with no raise. A6 will lose you a lot of money if you play it often - 4 6 is pretty easy to fold when you miss or hit bottom pair but when you really hit a flop you may stack your opponent.

well, without any doubt, in online poker you can easy win with 2-7 against 4,6 or A6 or any other hand. So....

love that omaha said:

4 6 is a hand that can flop well = and not be dominated

A6 prob 60 pct of time you flop and ace and get action you are beat and totally dominated. Only pots you win will be small pots.

obv 4 6 doesn't play well against A6 but it is a much better hand. Even though they are both garbage and I wouldn't play either except maybe on the button or from the blinds with no raise. A6 will lose you a lot of money if you play it often - 4 6 is pretty easy to fold when you miss or hit bottom pair but when you really hit a flop you may stack your opponent.

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Im sure I just replied to you in an other thread so I hope you don't think Im picking on you.

Okay lets start with 46 flopping well. It doesn't.. End of. When we flop pairs they are normally bottom pairs, we have little equity so just fold it preflop. Yes our hand is 'disguised' when we flop straight draws, trips and two pair but that happens so infrequently that its not important.

A6 is a better hand for many reasons. We can flop TP often, and for anyone that says we'll lose a big pot when we flop TP and are dominated, we use pot control IP and don't lose very much. We often have the best hand preflop when people call out of the blinds (assuming we are stealing from the button) whereas 46 will always be the worst hand.

love that omaha said:

4 6 is a hand that can flop well = and not be dominated

A6 prob 60 pct of time you flop and ace and get action you are beat and totally dominated. Only pots you win will be small pots.

obv 4 6 doesn't play well against A6 but it is a much better hand. Even though they are both garbage and I wouldn't play either except maybe on the button or from the blinds with no raise. A6 will lose you a lot of money if you play it often - 4 6 is pretty easy to fold when you miss or hit bottom pair but when you really hit a flop you may stack your opponent.

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Agree, but in both cases , 46 and A6 will lose a lot of money if you play it often.
The point in this case is in poker software who oftenly work against odds and create a crazy catch...when is online situation 46 vs A6 , software can easy show a full house for 46, and 3 of kind for A6 with top kicker, because this kind of things happens a lot in online poker. In that case person with A6 will not fold as he usually would like in the case with A357 on the board where person can recognized a straight attempt or traps on a board.

A6o is superior to 64o in any way and is not even close.

A6o vs 64o
Equity Win Tie
72.05% 70.66% 1.39% { A6o }
27.95% 26.56% 1.39% { 64o }

A6o vs random
Equity Win Tie
57.68% 55.87% 1.81% { A6o }
42.32% 40.51% 1.81% { random }

64o vs random
Equity Win Tie
38.01% 35.00% 3.01% { 64o }
61.99% 58.98% 3.01% { random }

A6o vs a regy range (20%)
Equity Win Tie
43.48% 41.81% 1.68% { A6o }
56.52% 54.84% 1.68% { 22+, ATs+, A5s-A2s, K8s+, Q9s+, JTs, T8s, 86s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

64o vs a regy range (20%)
Equity Win Tie
32.00% 31.46% 0.53% { 64o }
68.00% 67.47% 0.53% { 22+, ATs+, A5s-A2s, K8s+, Q9s+, JTs, T8s, 86s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

A6o vs a fishy range (40%)
Equity Win Tie
48.39% 44.44% 3.95% { A6o }
51.61% 47.65% 3.95% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 86s, A2o+, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }

64o vs a fishy range (40%)
Equity Win Tie
33.69% 33.13% 0.57% { 64o }
66.31% 65.74% 0.57% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, 86s, A2o+, K8o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }

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Even if you gii vs someone who only gii TT+/AK both are shitty but still A6o is better.

A6o vs TT+/AK
Equity Win Tie
25.78% 24.97% 0.81% { A6o }
74.22% 73.41% 0.81% { TT+, AKs, AKo }


64o vs TT+/AK
Equity Win Tie
23.51% 23.29% 0.22% { 64o }
76.49% 76.27% 0.22% { TT+, AKs, AKo }

So meh, don't play both but if have to chose go with A6o

Keep in mind that Flopzilla isn't Poker Stove in that it doesn't compare raw equity between hole cards. It breaks down the hand into the different ways it hits flops. 46o can flop a couple of open enders and gutshots while with A6o, you're only playing the 1-card straight draw.

46 is arguably more playable postflop and much more likely to be live, but A6 is the better hand for sure.

CactusCat said:

Keep in mind that Flopzilla isn't Poker Stove in that it doesn't compare raw equity between hole cards. It breaks down the hand into the different ways it hits flops. 46o can flop a couple of open enders and gutshots while with A6o, you're only playing the 1-card straight draw.

46 is arguably more playable postflop and much more likely to be live, but A6 is the better hand for sure.

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Agree, A6 vs 46 don`t need any help on board against 46, that hand only need 'nothing' interesting for 46 hand to stay in the game after flop.

Tgen said:

Im pretty sure flopzilla no limit range ranking arent about hot and cold equity but i dont understand , for what exactly are they made for? how is it possible that 46o > A6o? i would never choose 46o over A6o for stealing.

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Note that you can change the ranking method to exactly what stove uses if you like (flopzilla calls it LHE ranking or something like that). Pokerstove orders its top n% range simply by how these hands fare preflop versus 3 random hands. Not a great way to go about it imo but it's what a lot of people are used to.

Flopzilla's default ranking method is something the designer made up that felt right for NLH. It's subjective without any specific process or formula used. Not many people know that btw.

This thread is so dumb I think I just lost IQ reading the first few posts. Nothing against anyone, it's just that the premise of the whole discussion is ignorant as hell. If anyone needs help playing 46 and A6, I can start a home game up and school you on the basics.

Reminds of a table discussion that happened live a couple weeks ago where a dealer and a reg was saying 53 suited was a better starting hand then K4s. I disagreed and pretty much said K high > 5 high.

ScooperNova said:

I can start a home game up and school you on the basics.

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Thanks, sounds good. While you're at it can you school us on how the RNG gets shady whenever you discuss an issue with support.

DunningKruger said:

Thanks, sounds good. While you're at it can you school us on how the RNG gets shady whenever you discuss an issue with support.

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A6 > 46.

Equilab takes into account the implied odds to some degree, and so it will suggest that you play hands like 46 over A6 because of the disguised nature of the hand. I'm not sure they specify that it has to do with implied odds, but it's noticeable when the program makes suggestions like this. A6 is pretty much dead to aces and sixes while 46 has hidden straight potential and would likely not be a very noticeable 2-pair, either.

EDIT: Just saw you use flopzilla. Still applies.

EDIT2:

DunningKruger said:

It's subjective without any specific process or formula used.

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Just saw this whole post. I suppose that means we can assume that the designer had implied odds in mind, despite there not being any specific mention of it.