Flopping straights or flushes

akaRobbo

akaRobbo

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I never seem to get any good value when I flop these hands. At the moment if im early position ill check and if im acting late ill smooth call. But its usually just checked around to me and ill put in a small turn bet which will scare everyone off. Im beginning to think whether its worth just pot sizing or 3/4 potting the flop to make it look like a steal in the hope people will try to outplay me. This is 6max not full ring if it makes any difference.

What plays do you make when you flop the nuts?

Also, just another quick question which came to mind. When you raise pre OOP with say KQ or a similiar hand with high cards and you get 1 caller. When the flop comes, say, A73 rainbow, or J52 and you miss, do you near enough always fire a continuation bet against a reg (not a calling station/donk), then if were called we can just check fold? Ive recently been playing tighter and bluffing hardly any of the time because I seem to be being called all the time at 10NL.
 
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thebigslade

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If it's multiway, people aren't that likely to try and steal the pot at 10NL imo. Often people will check their top pair hands even in position. Assuming you took the lead preflop, I don't see any reason to not lead out on the flop with the nuts. If late position players think you're trying to steal, they'll raise, not call, and you can shove over the top.

For your second point, I would take a look at villain's 'fold to c-bet' if you have a decent sample size. Even without that, if you're up against a TAG I'll be c-betting the majority of these flops. Against a loose player who is likely to call you down, I'd take check/fold if I completely whiff the flop.
 
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thatgreekdude

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The problem with flopping the nuts is that the majority of the time people really havn't flopped anything and even with top pair they'll probably check it around if it's a dangerous board so i see no problems with leading out even if you don't get any action because you'll get a little value from top pairs, overpairs, and if someone has flopped a set you'll most likely get re-raised and you'll stack him.

Against a reg depending on the action pre i'll usually lead out and represent the ace and at 10NL i don't think people are going to float an awful lot and are most likely going to fold so if you are called then you can assume you are most probably behind.
 
Thinker_145

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Never slow play if you flop a straight unless you flop a broadway on a rainbow board.

Let's suppose you have T8 and the flop comes 679. Now yes you have the nuts but do you realise how many cards are going to ruin your hand in one way or another? If a 5 comes and no one has an 8 then you can't get value anymore. If an 8 comes you no longer have the nuts and getting paid off became tougher again. If a T comes then again you no longer have the nuts and difficult to get value. You could also get in big trouble if someone has made a bigger straight obviously. So that's 10 outs you don't want to see on the turn. If someone has an over pair or 2 pair you want to bet big on the flop and force your opponents into tough decisions.

Remember when you flop a straight you cannot improve on your hand anymore where as your opponents can that's why I don't like slow playing a straight.

Now we come to flopping a flush and there are 2 distinct scenarios.

Scenario A is flopping a K high or lower flush. I for one don't like to slow play it because if the board makes a 4 to a flush then you don't know where you stand. Its also true that people proceed cautiously when an all suited flop comes but if someone has the nut flush draw they will pretty much always pay you off. A set is also not folding and 2 pair will also call you as long as you make reasonable bets. But I guess in certain situations you can slow play a flopped flush.

Scenario B is flopping the nut flush and I do generally slow play it. If a 4 to a flush comes you will lose value but you will nevertheless have the nuts. You want someone to make their straight or 2 pair on the turn and then you can play it more aggressively.

I guess when you flop a flush you might slow play the flop and bet big on the turn because then your opponents won't be putting on you a flush. Going berserk on the flop will often scare everyone away.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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78s ... flop comes KsQs2s

We bet because draws such as As will call and may even raise... A set or 2 pair, weak players maybe think you are bluffing as well.

When you have a made hand but it may not be the nuts by the river, your defending the hand. Same goes for straights though we can bet the possible flushes out there and make better hands fold.
 
Mr Sandbag

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How you play a flopped straight/flush doesn't have too much to do with "defending" your hand. You don't bet or raise because you want to avoid being outdrawn on a later street. You bet/raise for value based on factors like board texture, number of opponents, and their ranges. Flopping broadway is great, even on a rainbow board, because it usually hits your opponents' ranges hard. Flopping a flush with KQs on a 9-5-2 monotone board and flopping it with 76s on a KQ9 monotone board are situations that should be approached differently. In the first scenario, how likely are you to be called in a HU pot when betting the flop? In the second scenario, why slow play when you can get called by a ton of broadway pairs, draws, etc.?
 
blueskies

blueskies

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Bet bet bet.

Especially true with low flushes.

With the nut flush, you can afford to check once against aggro players, but against calling stations, lead out too.

With straights, just bet. I can't tell ya how many times a flopped str has not held up. Mofos can catch cards to tie or beat ya. Don't give free cards.
 
rytciaq

rytciaq

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If I flop nut flush, I slowplay them and check-raise on the river. But it also depends on the opponents, chip stack and position that you are in.
 
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Ubercroz

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Consider why you are betting at all in poker. The best reason is to bet for value.

At microstakes the most common mistake I see is that people call too often, or rather they don't believe you "have it" whatever "it" is in their mind.

When you flop the flush you want to bet, because you want to build a pot and to take peoples money. The best way to get someone to put more money in the pot is to bet/raise.

If you flopped the flush there is a good chance that your opponent will not believe you, or maybe they have a set and aren't getting off of the hand that easy, or they have an A high draw to the best flush. Whatever the reason, you can often get calls.

I will typically take the most aggressive route possible to get the money in the pot. If they bet, I will raise, if they check I will bet. I won't be just calling on the flop.

Most bad microstakes players confuse aggression for bluffing. You will get more calls than you might initially think, and if they don't call there is a good chance they wouldn't call any further bets after the flop either.

Bet and raise as much as you can. You will see a big improvement to your winrate.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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Consider why you are betting at all in poker. The best reason is to bet for value.

At microstakes the most common mistake I see is that people call too often, or rather they don't believe you "have it" whatever "it" is in their mind.

When you flop the flush you want to bet, because you want to build a pot and to take peoples money. The best way to get someone to put more money in the pot is to bet/raise.

If you flopped the flush there is a good chance that your opponent will not believe you, or maybe they have a set and aren't getting off of the hand that easy, or they have an A high draw to the best flush. Whatever the reason, you can often get calls.

I will typically take the most aggressive route possible to get the money in the pot. If they bet, I will raise, if they check I will bet. I won't be just calling on the flop.

Most bad microstakes players confuse aggression for bluffing. You will get more calls than you might initially think, and if they don't call there is a good chance they wouldn't call any further bets after the flop either.

Bet and raise as much as you can. You will see a big improvement to your winrate.
I agree with this completely. When I started playing poker I used to think like that too, the flop has a pair and this guy is betting so big surely he won't do that if he had trips? The board is all suited surely he won't do this if he had a flush?

Mind you when you are playing against a reg who has lots of info on you and respects your game, then its time to mix up things a little with your nuts.
 
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