Flopped the nut flush and someone massively overbets the pot- what would you do next?

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dazzammm

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Hello,

I play in a regular cash game. its fairly loose with lots of preflop limping, lots of calling if it is raised preflop with ATC and 2 guys who will call on the flop and turn with just one overcard.

Anyway, i hadnt won at this game for 12 sessions after crushing it at the beginning but changed a few things for last weeks session.

I had sat down with £20 and got it up to £60.
blinds 25p/50p
I had A5s in the BB. UTG limps (he has about £80 and has paid half my stake on the agreement he takes half my winnings - considering i hadnt won for 12 sessions it seemed a good deal. he is also a solid player post flop), SB completes and i check.
my image is if im in a pot ive usually got something big.

I flop the nut flush - unpaired board.
so theres £1.50 in the pot. SB is a player who plays atc and loves overbetting the pot with air or a monster. he bets £6 into a £1.50 pot!

what would you do next bearing in mind that the UTG is yet to act and has a claim to half my profit (i.e. if he loses a pot to me he still wins) ?
 
smokeme

smokeme

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what do you mean by if he loses he still wins?..u have nuts on the flop. you can either slow play. or raise. iono what the stack sizes are but if he overbets on a flop thats suited i think hes either bluffin you or tryin to get u off the draw cuz he got a set or 2 pairs. but u got the best hand. either raise it or slow play and get it in on the river
 
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BlueNowhere

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I'd say a more concerning issue is why are you playing in an ultra soft game and buying in for 40bb.
 
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swingro

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what do you mean by if he loses he still wins?..u have nuts on the flop. you can either slow play. or raise. iono what the stack sizes are but if he overbets on a flop thats suited i think hes either bluffin you or tryin to get u off the draw cuz he got a set or 2 pairs. but u got the best hand. either raise it or slow play and get it in on the river
I do not advise to slowplay a flush in a 3 way pot. You will take your eyes out later if the board pairs
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Absolute worst case scenario you are 65% to win this hand (more if they both flopped a set). That is enough for me to smooth call, but that's me. You have to decide what you would need and if shoving to "protect your hand" is necessary.

if you avoid the board pairing up on the turn now you are close to 80%.

At some point you decide to ignore the monsters under the bed in order to maximize value - but everyone has the right to decide when that would be. Do you need to be more than a 2-1 favorite?

Of course there is the point of the read - will this guy go all the way if you shove?
 
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gazrosenau

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what are u doing playing with the guy who is taking a cut of your winnings at the same table? surely thats calusion.
 
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dazzammm

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what do you mean by if he loses he still wins?.
hes paid half my stake and gets half my profits. if i shove for £60, he calls and I win he gets £30 back
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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what are u doing playing with the guy who is taking a cut of your winnings at the same table? surely thats calusion.
It's only collusion if one or both alter their normal play to aid the other.
 
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dazzammm

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I'd say a more concerning issue is why are you playing in an ultra soft game and buying in for 40bb.
good question - these are not serious players. the buyin and blinds were plucked out the air and it was decided the maximum buyin is £20. I do keep telling them that 40bb is a very low limit but the game's organiser / the pub's landlord loves shoving with his £20.
 
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dazzammm

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It's only collusion if one or both alter their normal play to aid the other.
we are too stupid to know how to collude. We rarely tangle and havent discussed playing any differently so dont envisage any problems
 
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dazzammm

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oh, forgot to mention the SB had £10 behind after his £6 flop bet. I had my eye on his remaining money as i suspected he was betting light. My concern was the £80 utg.
 
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OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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^ not when the bettor has 10 behind and has bet 6 of it.

see how important stack sizes are?

flat to keep UTG in imo.
 
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dazzammm

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sooooo,

with a £6 bet into a £1.50 pot, I call with the nut flush. The utg, convinced I have him beat folds the 2nd nut flush face up!
the turn is a brick and the SB folds saying he was bluffing.

Im thinking i lost a lot of value by only calling and could have made it look like a nut flush DRAW by shoving and maybe getting a call from the 2nd nut flush or was the utg just too cautious in folding the 2nd nut flush.
 
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poker d player

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Does this seem strange to anyone else ? 2nd nut flush folding here (possibly you 2 have history ?? ) Folding this hand face up while it was still a live hand ??
 
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dazzammm

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i was shocked but they do think i only play the nuts which is not strictly true ;o)

i could have easily called with a queen of jack high flush.

i cant remember exactly when he exposed his hand but he gave the impression that it was an agonising fold
 
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doginthefog

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I would flat, you want the guy to make as many mistakes as possible so raising the flop is fine if you think he always has a flush or hand he will put all the chips in with but if u think he's folding then just slowplay
 
The Messiah

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I would of called with 2,3s.
Whatever deal you have going on with your friend in terms of poker, end it, it comes across that you are the better of the bunch, so just let variance be variance and play with 100% of your own money. Your friend folding the 2nd nut flush on the flop is just...lol.

As played, just flat, villains got f all behind, and theres no need to worry about your friend, hes a nit!!
 
BelgoSuisse

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FOLD, imo.

If you fold the nuts everytime and only call when you're beat, sooner or later your image of someone who only plays the nuts will fade away and that will be a lot more profitable long term than any short term gain this hand might provide.
 
prepare

prepare

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FOLD, imo.

If you fold the nuts everytime and only call when you're beat, sooner or later your image of someone who only plays the nuts will fade away and that will be a lot more profitable long term than any short term gain this hand might provide.

I am pretty good at reading sarcasm but not this time.

So, are you joking?
 
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dazzammm

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I would of called with 2,3s.
Whatever deal you have going on with your friend in terms of poker, end it, it comes across that you are the better of the bunch, so just let variance be variance and play with 100% of your own money. Your friend folding the 2nd nut flush on the flop is just...lol.

As played, just flat, villains got f all behind, and theres no need to worry about your friend, hes a nit!!

cant afford it so ive not been going. hes effectively paying me to keep the game going. a few more weeks like last week then ill have some money to play with.
 
BelgoSuisse

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I am pretty good at reading sarcasm but not this time.

So, are you joking?

Partly. But not entirely.

The hand in this thread really plays itself. No real need to argue about it.

The real issue is OP's image in that game. If people fold the 2nd nuts face up when he merely calls, it must be hard to get paid on his good hands.

Provided it's a live game, my actual sarcasm free advice would be to drink a lot more alcohol while playing, and ostensibly so. Play slightly looser too.
 
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