Flopped the Nut Flush! ...but the board paired after the turn

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Deceitful_Frank

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party poker, $0.01/$0.02 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

UTG+2: $0.90 (45 bb)
MP1: $1.56 (78 bb)
MP2: $1.36 (68 bb)
Hero (MP3): $3.17 (158.5 bb)
CO: $2.31 (115.5 bb)
BTN: $1.97 (98.5 bb)
SB: $0.53 (26.5 bb)
BB: $1.49 (74.5 bb)
UTG+1: $1.88 (94 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is MP3 with J
club4.gif
A
club4.gif

UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.08, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.28, 3 folds, BB calls $0.26, UTG+2 calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.85) T
club4.gif
6
club4.gif
Q
club4.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.85) T
diamond4.gif
(3 players)
BB bets $0.10, UTG+2 raises to $0.62 and is all-in, Hero raises to $2.89 and is all-in, BB folds

River: ($2.19) 4
diamond4.gif
(2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results (listed below in white, highlight to see): $2.19 pot ($0.10 rake)
UTG+2 showed Jd Qd (two pairs, Queens and Tens) and lost (-$0.90 net)
Hero showed Jc Ac (a flush, Ace high) and won $2.09 ($1.19 net)

Well this hand got my pulse raising yesterday! :D

Is flopping the nut flush like 1/500 hands? I don't know but I felt quite comfortable after the flop.

Didn't want to spook anybody so I figured as long as the board didn't pair I would be safe. I have never seen a straight flush so I pretty much disregard this if i am multitabling as time is of the essence! I checked and let a the turn card come...

A ten! Now I dont feel quite so confident as like the Queen on the board, a ten is well within the range for calling my pre-flop raise!

Player in early position bets out and the guy in mid position quickly puts in a hefty raise going all-in with his last 62 cents. I smelt danger and figured it was time to end the hand so I also went all-in. Guy in early position folded, keeping his last $1.11.

Was I right to panic or should I have kept the pace slow to take his last $1.11 after the river?

Should I have folded when the guy in mid position went all-in as there was serious full house danger. Did I just get lucky winning this hand afterall?

I suppose when there are to Tens on the board there is less chance of someone else also having a Ten as well as a Queen!

Hoping I will get more luck in this section than hand analysis.

Frank.
 
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WiZZiM

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generally it would be a mistake to fold nut flush at these levels... id be over the moon with getting it all in here as they will be getting their money in with a lot of hands that you absolutely crush... and generally on this board they will be betting a set hard more often than not...

if the guy had a hand hes calling anyways, and prob folding to the 50 cent raise most of the time..

preflop the 3bet is iffy, AJs is probably a little marginal at these stakes as you will get a lot of callers, even with raise reraise, they still seem to call with KJ, so it can be difficult to play it postflop, i would have preferred a flat call behind the raise as you have position. but thats just me
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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i would have preferred a flat call behind the raise as you have position. but thats just me

Yes I do see your point but I generally as a rule never call pre-flop, unless its a low pocket pair or I am trying to get in cheap with a low suited connector I either raise of fold and my opening raise is ALWAYS four big blinds.

I considered random betting patterns but feel its just as good to always bet the same from all positions with all hands I would bet. If there are too many limpers to get through with the 4 big blind raise then I simply fold.

I suppose the chance of him having a Queen AND a ten were pretty slim and I should have just gone for it.

On a different note I have taken heed of the advice concerning tightening up and have played some hands with encouraging results. I know I may be getting ahead of myself and its a tiny sample but is 24BB/100 hands remotely realistic? If it is should I be moving up the stakes?

I posted details sheets for comparison:
 

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blueskies

blueskies

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You gotta call that no matter what. It's just one pair on the board. Slim chance of FH. If it was a two paired board, then I'd consider folding.
 
W

WiZZiM

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thats ok, my style differs as i genearlly like to play lots of smaller pots...

since your just getting used to whatever stakes your playing i suggest just hanging in those stakes and mastering them... once you have over like 10k hands and are still winning, its a much better sample size, over 1k hands its not a big enough sample size to say "im a winning player at these levels" you just dont know... so stick to whatever your doing, and keep learning! but its a feel thing, if you feel your ready, and have a bankroll to sustain the level, then sure give it a try, but dont be cocky if you start losing move back down again.

but looks good over 1k hands so far well done
 
PayMeh

PayMeh

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First off I appologize for the long post but I'll dissect how I would view every action that was given.

It all depends on how these people have been playing. If UTG+2 has been playing LAG and almost every hand of his has seen at least the flop then you might have something to worry about. If this guy has been playing TAG though you can better put him on a range of hands. I also assume he bought in for 2 dollars at the table, which means he's lost 3/4 of his initial and is probably losing his patience with his hands. Remember at these limits you're going to see more marginal calls to steal a pot or suck out one.

You set this up well with the 3-bet preflop representing a strong hand, something like AA, KK, or AK suited. The check on the flop was a nice trap and everyone else was seeing where their hand stood. This is a classic example though where slow play can sometimes get you in trouble. Pairing the board when you flopped nut flush is the scariest card you could see but at the same time betting out on the flop lowers your potential for making the most of the hand.

The weak bet by the BB on the turn was more than likely just a shot at the pot hoping he wasn't the only one that missed the flop. It's hard to put the BB on a hand when they flat call big raises. It could be anything down to pocket pairs like 88 and he's paying too much to trip mine. After UTG+2 went all-in the BB would more than likely have folded anyways, but the reraise all-in sent him the message that if he was holding anything less than a full house it would be unwise to call.

When UTG+2 went all-in he still thought you missed the flop. This is an instance showing how having position on someone makes a world of difference. Sure he went all in but in actuality his bet was only about 3/4 of the pot. Being as short stacked as he was it was either push or fold for him. If he had raised to half his stack with one person having position on him then it's only 30 more cents to push him all-in and then he loses his control of the hand and stands the chance of being bullied off the best hand. By pushing he assured control over the action. Of course this is not the proper play in this position with such a scary board for him. People often lack patience and focus when playing online and everyone should be aware of this.

I think about this stuff every hand I play. Sure it comes back on me every once in a while but more often than not it pays me off. For me this would have been an easy all-in. Sure he could have hit one of his 4 outs on the river and still beaten you but thats poker. Also playing in a 9 handed game I always assume when calculating outs that one is already mucked. If it's for a flush draw I usually assume 3 are gone. Hope this helps you reassure yourself that this was an EV+ call in the long run.. =D
 
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matt20

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At 2NL, just bet this flop you'll get called with so many trashy hands it rediculous. You can expect villains to call with Queens KJ, any kinds of hands containing one club. Most of the players at 2NL will not be thinking about your cards just their pwn, so if they fold they weren't going to be putting much $ in the pot anyways, so your not risking getting sucked out on. But most likely they will be calling you with worse hands and paying you off in the long run.
 
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