LD1977
Legend
Silver Level
I have noticed an interesting trend that has been going on for a while but now I am pretty certain it is actually real.
I am talking about 5NL but I imagine same thing might be happening in other micro levels.
Lately I have been picking tables more carefully, when possible I like having 1-2 big losers on the table since that should be profitable for the rest of the players.
BUT
If the table is heavily populated by fish the following happens:
1. Blind stealing does not work
2. Cbets do not work
3. Isolating anyone does not work
4. Value betting does not work unless I am having a really good run of cards. The reason is that by the turn 2-3 fishes have seen 4 cards and all sorts of weird crap happens (straights, 2 pairs and sometimes sets) and it is not easy to survive until showdown unless I also have 2 pairs+ kind of hand (which doesn't happen that much).
5. Exotic coolers are pretty frequent
6. I win a few big pots with best hands (even stacks) but I am constantly bleeding money when on the turn I have overcards or some weak one pair hand (lets say I raised Axs or QJs from BTN) and have to give up.
Basically there is a very strong trend that I am heavily losing in sessions where I see a massive drop in steal success and cbet success (both decent money makers) because I am playing these tables. I am winning in all other types of situations.
It is actually much more profitable for me to play vs. other TAGs and nits with occasional fish thrown in than vs. massed (schooled (TM) ) fish.
I can steal blinds from the tighter players and isolate fish in right situations.
This goes against common logic, but that is how it is
Just to give you a clue about this effect in practice:
My overall average stats:
VPIP/PFR = 16.5/14
steal % = 44% (yes this is a bit high but against good targets it works enough)
steal success = 60%
cbet success = 41%
Against fish schools (approximate stats):
VPIP/PFR = 15/13
steal % = 24-34% (I have to reduce ranges a lot)
steal success = 28-38% (yup)
cbet success = 22-33% (yup)
So, am I doing something wrong here strategically with standard play or is this actually how it is and these tables are best avoided?
I want to say that I am doing better lately and if I could only solve this issue I would be a comfortable winner. It is paradoxical that massed fish are proving unbeatable for me while I can handle better players
I am talking about 5NL but I imagine same thing might be happening in other micro levels.
Lately I have been picking tables more carefully, when possible I like having 1-2 big losers on the table since that should be profitable for the rest of the players.
BUT
If the table is heavily populated by fish the following happens:
1. Blind stealing does not work
2. Cbets do not work
3. Isolating anyone does not work
4. Value betting does not work unless I am having a really good run of cards. The reason is that by the turn 2-3 fishes have seen 4 cards and all sorts of weird crap happens (straights, 2 pairs and sometimes sets) and it is not easy to survive until showdown unless I also have 2 pairs+ kind of hand (which doesn't happen that much).
5. Exotic coolers are pretty frequent
6. I win a few big pots with best hands (even stacks) but I am constantly bleeding money when on the turn I have overcards or some weak one pair hand (lets say I raised Axs or QJs from BTN) and have to give up.
Basically there is a very strong trend that I am heavily losing in sessions where I see a massive drop in steal success and cbet success (both decent money makers) because I am playing these tables. I am winning in all other types of situations.
It is actually much more profitable for me to play vs. other TAGs and nits with occasional fish thrown in than vs. massed (schooled (TM) ) fish.
I can steal blinds from the tighter players and isolate fish in right situations.
This goes against common logic, but that is how it is
Just to give you a clue about this effect in practice:
My overall average stats:
VPIP/PFR = 16.5/14
steal % = 44% (yes this is a bit high but against good targets it works enough)
steal success = 60%
cbet success = 41%
Against fish schools (approximate stats):
VPIP/PFR = 15/13
steal % = 24-34% (I have to reduce ranges a lot)
steal success = 28-38% (yup)
cbet success = 22-33% (yup)
So, am I doing something wrong here strategically with standard play or is this actually how it is and these tables are best avoided?
I want to say that I am doing better lately and if I could only solve this issue I would be a comfortable winner. It is paradoxical that massed fish are proving unbeatable for me while I can handle better players
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