First ever cash games, need a few questions answered

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MaDaMan

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1. What should i play? Cash games or SNG?

I have a limited bankroll and i was thinking that playing 2NL, grinding it out as a TAG would be better.

2. Since i will play 2NL most likely, should i play multiple tables or should i start at a single table and be patient until i am ready to add more? When should i add more? When did you? When do you think one is ready to handle several tables?

3. Please don't jump on me for this one. It is simply a question. Should i bluff at all?

I mean let's say i start with a decent set ak or aq maybe. Flop come and i miss it + rainbow flow. I make the c bet. I get called or even worse reraised. What then? Do i cut my losses and wait until they take them out later? With 8 outs would it be wise to continue vs fish who might call if they have 2nd or lowest pair? What does your experience say?

4.How do i deal with statistics?

I was making a dry run and watching the tables i might join then i had to wonder. There are tables with an average pot of 0.86 but a high number of players post flop. That means i might get called more and more by them. Indeed that means high revenue,but at the same time even if i flop AA, with 3-4 players in,i hold a chance of 60% AT BEST to win the pot.
Low average pot and low pot size means that it's a table full of rocks or tight player?
Tell me what should i choose.

5. What is rake?

I get what rake is but what i don't get is how it's calculated. I got an email with a 10$ bonus and was told that after 14 days it will disappear unless i bring in 1$ rake? What does that mean? Is it hard to do?

6. What goals should i set?

I saw and read that goal setting is good and improves your discipline. What goal should i set? Should it be money wise like make x more money and be at y sum by the end of the week/month? Wouldn't that make me more likely to enter loose hands and lose money in the long run due to the added pressure?
Should it be something like: Win 100bb, Win 500bb?

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I will not proceed until finishing reading Crushing the microstakes again. I would really appreciate constructive answers or criticism. "how could you not know" doesn't really help me learn any better.

Thanks in advance

P.S.: Yes i know 2nl may seem futile for most,but i prefer being careful with money. If i am not i could just be blowing my whole bankroll with a all in preflop with A8o from early position hoping that the ace will save me.
 
Beanfacekilla

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I will offer my two cents. I only have comments for a few of your concerns.

Don't multitable until you figure out how to master one table.

Don't bluff often. Think of it as a tool in your bag for special occasions. A good read is essential to bluff. Most of the micros have calling stations at every table. Don't try to bluff calling stations or bad players. Exploit them when you actually have a hand.

C-betting is based on the situation. All poker situations are dynamic. Players at the table, their styles, your read, position, stack sizes, etc. all come into play when determining the right course of action for any hand. C-betting is only profitable long term against 2 opponents or less (preferably HU). But once again, this depends on who you are playing against.

This is only my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt. I just wanted to try and give so feedback to this thread based on my experiences.
 
Beanfacekilla

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I forgot to add one thing. I thought it was important, sorry for the double post.

Pay attention to your opponents actions very closely at the tables. Take notes on your opponents. One of the best ways to predict future behavior is to analyze past behavior. Pay attention to what opponents are raising with, what they call with, etc.

This can really help you when you are faced with a tough decision. Try to avoid autopilot. Always use your time wisely at a table gathering info about your opponents.
 
M

MaDaMan

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I will remember the bluffing tehnique.

About the c-bet, can you give me a few examples what not to bet into.
For example i have big slick and the flop comes 34d Jh . Should i c-bet that? I know that the rule with c-bet is to just do it because you will know more about what players hold,but a call boat or bad players might think - i have a D or i have a offsuit draw i should go for it. Should i c-bet?
 
micromachine

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1. What should i play? Cash games or SNG?

You're in the cash forum so most of us will say play cash :)

I have a limited bankroll and i was thinking that playing 2NL, grinding it out as a TAG would be better.

2. Since i will play 2NL most likely, should i play multiple tables or should i start at a single table and be patient until i am ready to add more? When should i add more? When did you? When do you think one is ready to handle several tables?

Start with 1, see how it goes, add one or two more when ready

3. Please don't jump on me for this one. It is simply a question. Should i bluff at all?

In general don't bluff at 2nl, you will get called down too often by middle pair etc. By all means cbet and fire the odd double barrel but you really don't need to bluff to be profitable at 2nl

I mean let's say i start with a decent set ak or aq maybe. Flop come and i miss it + rainbow flow. I make the c bet. I get called or even worse reraised. What then? Do i cut my losses and wait until they take them out later? With 8 outs would it be wise to continue vs fish who might call if they have 2nd or lowest pair? What does your experience say?

4.How do i deal with statistics?

I was making a dry run and watching the tables i might join then i had to wonder. There are tables with an average pot of 0.86 but a high number of players post flop. That means i might get called more and more by them. Indeed that means high revenue,but at the same time even if i flop AA, with 3-4 players in,i hold a chance of 60% AT BEST to win the pot.
Low average pot and low pot size means that it's a table full of rocks or tight player?
Tell me what should i choose.

High players per flop / High VPIP and big avg pot are the best tables.

5. What is rake?

I get what rake is but what i don't get is how it's calculated. I got an email with a 10$ bonus and was told that after 14 days it will disappear unless i bring in 1$ rake? What does that mean? Is it hard to do?

Rake will be a standard % of the pot (on hands that see the flop), I think it's 3.5% at 2nl on Stars

6. What goals should i set?

I saw and read that goal setting is good and improves your discipline. What goal should i set? Should it be money wise like make x more money and be at y sum by the end of the week/month? Wouldn't that make me more likely to enter loose hands and lose money in the long run due to the added pressure?
Should it be something like: Win 100bb, Win 500bb?

Volume goals (I'll aim to play 10k hands this month etc) are better than money oriented goals

----

I will not proceed until finishing reading Crushing the microstakes again. I would really appreciate constructive answers or criticism. "how could you not know" doesn't really help me learn any better.

Thanks in advance

P.S.: Yes i know 2nl may seem futile for most,but i prefer being careful with money. If i am not i could just be blowing my whole bankroll with a all in preflop with A8o from early position hoping that the ace will save me.

2nl is not futile at all, it is the stepping stone to higher levels

See answers above, GL
 
micromachine

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I will remember the bluffing tehnique.

About the c-bet, can you give me a few examples what not to bet into.
For example i have big slick and the flop comes 34d Jh . Should i c-bet that? I know that the rule with c-bet is to just do it because you will know more about what players hold,but a call boat or bad players might think - i have a D or i have a offsuit draw i should go for it. Should i c-bet?

Lots of 2nl player will be playing fit or fold on the flop, and most of the time they wont have flopped anything so cbet loads and watch them fold :) If you see someone playing like this then cbet them 100% of the time until you think they are adjusting (which they probably wont)
 
Beanfacekilla

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I will remember the bluffing tehnique.

About the c-bet, can you give me a few examples what not to bet into.
For example i have big slick and the flop comes 34d Jh . Should i c-bet that? I know that the rule with c-bet is to just do it because you will know more about what players hold,but a call boat or bad players might think - i have a D or i have a offsuit draw i should go for it. Should i c-bet?

I would avoid c-betting wet boards. 3d-4d-Jh is sorta draw heavy. Flush draw, straight draw to go with your opponents ace/rag.

Also consider your own table image when c-betting. If you only raise A-Q +, opponents may know you hated that flop. You could try a c-bet, but you will probably get called. C-bet when you have lots of outs.

Just my opinion again. I don't think I am an expert, just offering my $0.02
 
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What you are saying makes total sense,but at the same time steps out of the whole "aggresive" range of your spectrum.

At one point it would be wise not to waste money,but at the same time, if i don't c-bet i have ZERO info and i'm no longer in control.

If i check the flop,even in position. After the turn, the out of position is free to abuse me with a turn raise. Indeed if a 4th rag hand comes i will most likely be out of my range,BUT at the same time i could have went in with a higher pocket pair.

Also i could check all my way. Get a high card on the river,but by allowing him to see free cards,i'm giving him FREE options to take me down.

You have to give action to get action.

Furthermore i consider that not shooting the c-bet(even if it's blank gives me a bad table image). Something like "If he airs on the flop, he will run away". Indeed i can use that and get them pot comitted with a slowplay,but the more people that aren't folding the flop because of my c-bet, the more chances i get to lose my high card for nothing. If i go heads up or something i have higher chances even with missing the flop rather then checking all around and letting 4 people see a free card.

I would really like to hear more experience people tell me what is best in this situation with the c-bet.
 
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MaDaMan

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Lots of 2nl player will be playing fit or fold on the flop, and most of the time they wont have flopped anything so cbet loads and watch them fold :) If you see someone playing like this then cbet them 100% of the time until you think they are adjusting (which they probably wont)

By c-bet loads what do you mean? betting 1/3,1/2 or the pot?or is it entirely something else
 
micromachine

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Sorry I meant loads as in really often/almost every time.

My cbet amount is pretty standard, between 60-70% pot
 
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Sorry I meant loads as in really often/almost every time.

My cbet amount is pretty standard, between 60-70% pot

I've read in Negreanu's book that the cbet can vary between 1/3 to 3/4 of the pot. It depends on it being a cbet(with air), feeler bet or actually a value bet.

Why do you use 60-70%?
 
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many use 2/3rds pot as a standard cuz its a good standard size that will make it unprofitable for people to draw correctly. Also helps to build the pot and get stacks in easier when you have a hand.

I usually bet 2/3's up to post size when betting for value. If I'm cbetting cuz I think its a good spot and I don't have anything I'll go for 1/2 pot plus a couple bbs.
 
Seraphim

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What you are saying makes total sense,but at the same time steps out of the whole "aggresive" range of your spectrum.

At one point it would be wise not to waste money,but at the same time, if i don't c-bet i have ZERO info and i'm no longer in control.

If i check the flop,even in position. After the turn, the out of position is free to abuse me with a turn raise. Indeed if a 4th rag hand comes i will most likely be out of my range,BUT at the same time i could have went in with a higher pocket pair.

Also i could check all my way. Get a high card on the river,but by allowing him to see free cards,i'm giving him FREE options to take me down.

You have to give action to get action.

Furthermore i consider that not shooting the c-bet(even if it's blank gives me a bad table image). Something like "If he airs on the flop, he will run away". Indeed i can use that and get them pot comitted with a slowplay,but the more people that aren't folding the flop because of my c-bet, the more chances i get to lose my high card for nothing. If i go heads up or something i have higher chances even with missing the flop rather then checking all around and letting 4 people see a free card.

I would really like to hear more experience people tell me what is best in this situation with the c-bet.
They determend awhile back that blind cbeting is no longer outright profitable so you have to pick your spots oh and if you are playing 2nl the last thing you want to worry about is table image hardly no players pay attention to what you are doing oh and I would suggest getting some kind of tracking program if you dont have one yet either poker tracker or holdem manager not sure about holdem manager but pt has a free 30 day trial.:D
 
micromachine

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I usually bet 2/3's up to post size when betting for value. If I'm cbetting cuz I think its a good spot and I don't have anything I'll go for 1/2 pot plus a couple bbs.

Which is fine when no-one is paying attention to your bet sizing, which normally they aren't at the micros, but better players will notice so cbetting the same amount for value or when you miss vs the regs is best imo
 
LuckyChippy

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The most important skill in poker is hand reading. When your opponent takes any action try to think about the range of hands that he would likely have. If he raises preflop for example you can likely discount the worst hands. Just try to think about what your opponent has but don't try to narrow it down to one hand, that's almost impossible, think about the range of hands.

If you spend your time thinking about your opponent and what he has in a specific way then you'll do ok.
 
LD1977

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Putting people on hands in 2NL is exercise in futility, especially if they are a bit short stacked.
 
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The most important skill in poker is hand reading. When your opponent takes any action try to think about the range of hands that he would likely have. If he raises preflop for example you can likely discount the worst hands. Just try to think about what your opponent has but don't try to narrow it down to one hand, that's almost impossible, think about the range of hands.

If you spend your time thinking about your opponent and what he has in a specific way then you'll do ok.

Well i know about betting patterns, limiting their range. Judging how flop,turn affected the way he played the hand. I remember to see what hands he played when and how the bet(if they went in with a8 and called heavily until rivering the ace) so yeah, i know the most of it. I made this thread because i know the basics + a lil more,but i wanted to be sure so i won't lose my money stepping into some landmines.
 
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themosthigh

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I like that site. Some good videos as well from Spilsuit.
 
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