Extreme downswings at 6 max cash?

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While I generally have adopted the view recently that there aren't downswings or upswings and it's all long term, I recently committed to a small but decent bankroll and good management of it. After years of playing I figured in general 5-10 BI swings were uncommon but could easily be expected. Especially in 6 max.

In the past few days I've hit a massive downswing. At least 20BIs at 6 max. While I'm still rolled for it I've started mixing in some lower stake games as well so I don't lose my mind. This is mostly 10NL.

Looking back on most of the hands where I lost stacks, I found at least 12-15 of these were due to getting the money in good and ahead but still losing to suckouts. I posted last week about some sick suckouts but still having confidence that the plays were correct.

And then even more insane suckouts. Literal one and two outters. Runner runners. Hands people shouldn't have even been in.

The largest "single session" downswing of the current few days downswing was about 8 buy ins. 5 of them were lost to the same guy. All 5 I was in ahead, he gets his outs on the river.

But then they continued. Value betting better, getting money in ahead, and still losing. Some of the stack losses were big draws that didn't hit (like having an open ended straight draw with a 4 to the flush draw, and even being ahead at the time of the draw to still lose). I get that, draws don't always work.

And I get that it's one hand at a time. I;ve looked over a lot of these hands and while I was slightly comforted to know most of them were brutal suckouts. People calling massive raises to get their runner runner flush or calling with bottom pair only to get rewarded on the river. Some were obviously spots I could have played better.

I'll keep on keeping on but it's definitely a little disheartening to get a roll together, work on your game, work hard, and then see people make massively bad plays and win. Realistically, I know this is good. Psychologically, i know this makes sense. We want these people to play terribly like this.

So my rant aside, what do you guys do when massive downswings hit? What adjustments if any do you make when you look back and see you played a hand right and still lost? How do you combat players who just never never fold. Who will happily call deep stacks all in with AK and win? Who have one out and just call and call?

I will say I've overcome my tilt and I've worked hard on BRM and studying the game. I've really worked on value betting and not getting into tricky situations. But then of course they have 10 4 suited for the runner runner flush against a set. I mean why wouldn't you go all in with suited cards pre flop?

You know what I mean.

Thanks for reading my rant. I will say BRM is crucial to me not losing my mind here but it's still a bit disappointing to work hard and see massive streaks like this happen!

Any tips on how to deal with tricky spots like villains drawing and pre flop aggression are welcome. I feel like I get in there and isolate well and then oh look the river is the miracle card they needed. I take a step back and know these terrible donk plays are profitable in the long run, but how does one get to the point where you can avoid enough suckouts to actually have a steady roll instead of feeling like you have to move down, move down, or reload, reload to keep rolled. I mean 5 BI downswings are nothing, but 20? come on.

TL;DR - What is considered a normal downswing in 6 max online cash games? And how do you personally deal with massive suckouts that contribute to larger than expected downswings?
 
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TL:DR - What is considered a normal downswing in 6 max online cash games? And how do you personally deal with massive suckouts that contribute to larger than expected downswings?
 
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It sounds like you have your mental game sorted out and you're keeping tilt in check which is good. Often times the start of a downswing brings about tilt which makes a rough ride even worse. Been there, done that more times than I care to admit.

There is no shame in dropping down stakes or even reloading if you can afford it. Your upswing will come soon enough if you just keep a level head and keep getting your money in good. I don't think there is much else you can do. If you feel it starting to take a toll on your life away from the felt or that tilt monster starts to creep up, take a short break. Spend a few days or weeks doing something else you enjoy and come back refreshed and ready to go.
 
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It sounds like you have your mental game sorted out and you're keeping tilt in check which is good. Often times the start of a downswing brings about tilt which makes a rough ride even worse. Been there, done that more times than I care to admit.

There is no shame in dropping down stakes or even reloading if you can afford it. Your upswing will come soon enough if you just keep a level head and keep getting your money in good. I don't think there is much else you can do. If you feel it starting to take a toll on your life away from the felt or that tilt monster starts to creep up, take a short break. Spend a few days or weeks doing something else you enjoy and come back refreshed and ready to go.


Thanks man. This is very well said and I agree with it 100%. Ironically, I'm studying to be a psychologist so the tilt control I use these days is in part derived from my training. It's pretty cool to see the crossovers between psychology and poker and so it's opened a whole new understanding of the game for me.

One thing that helped me grow out of tilting issues (like chasing losses, not being mindful of how I feel in a current hand because of a past hand, etc). was to actively remind myself of the present hand and the moves I'm making. I am starting to get looser, am I making a bet for a reason or just because of a bad beat, basically looking at in the moment why I'm making a play or opening my range, etc etc. It's had immediate effects on refocusing me and giving me a sign if I should take a short break (even just to go do something else for an hour) or make sure I stay the course with my strategy and ranges.

So for example one fallacy I often notice in myself and others at poker is seeing some maniac calling you down to get one card on the river that gives them the win. Then you start thinking if they did it then you could to (which of course is incorrect unless they really did get their money in on a good draw or ahead). Suddenly those 7 2 off suit suckouts make you question your own strategy and if you should play 7 2 off suit because it just won that donk a ton of money. Obviously these thoughts creep in and can be any number of thoughts about doubting your game. So I stop and tell myself that no that was a good play on my part (if it was and if not, I look at it and see if I did what I should have done) and that no playing like the donk in that case is not a winning strategy. Or be aware of thoughts of feeling like it isn't fair or I'm owed, or some other absurdity. Basically just self talk to ensure I'm mindful of my current state in the current hand.

It's also refreshing to hear about no shame in reloading as needed (there seems to be among some players a point of pride of never reloading but I let that idea go for me because why not take advantage of reload bonuses and also why not keep the roll at a level I;m comfortable at if i can). And of course no shame in moving down even IF one can reload just to get the confidence back.

I've come to find, at least for me, that the mental game of poker (esp online) is perhaps as important if not more so then the math and strategy of the game. After all, we can make every move correctly and still lose a winning hand many times in a row.

This is one of the first massive downswings Ive experienced since I committed to an actual roll and where I have resisted the urge to "move up to just get that roll up again" and just held the course. You think hey I'll just sit down at the 50NL table just this once, double or triple up and move back down or I'll just enter this high entry fee tourney just this once to get the win. And we all know how that generally works out. I'd rather stay at my level or drop down and top up my roll if needed then just go down those chasing trips again. Might as well take advantage of some reload bonuses along the way and stick to my game at the same time.
 
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Thanks man. This is very well said and I agree with it 100%. Ironically, I'm studying to be a psychologist so the tilt control I use these days is in part derived from my training. It's pretty cool to see the crossovers between psychology and poker and so it's opened a whole new understanding of the game for me.

That's awesome! I'm sure the knowledge you gain in your studies will help you become a better poker player. Maybe one day you'll even figure out what makes some of these crazy fish tick ;)

One thing that helped me grow out of tilting issues (like chasing losses, not being mindful of how I feel in a current hand because of a past hand, etc). was to actively remind myself of the present hand and the moves I'm making.
I use a similar technique sometimes. Talking myself through a hand, explaining to myself what and why I am doing something. It can really help you keep focused and sometimes you'll catch yourself doing something that makes no sense. I have to make sure no one's around though or I look like a nutjob talking to myself lol.

It's also refreshing to hear about no shame in reloading as needed (there seems to be among some players a point of pride of never reloading but I let that idea go for me because why not take advantage of reload bonuses and also why not keep the roll at a level I;m comfortable at if i can). And of course no shame in moving down even IF one can reload just to get the confidence back.
I think a lot of those players see reloading or dropping stakes as a sign of failure when it's not that at all. There are times where things just never seem to go your way. If I realize I'm in some kind of downswing I would much rather ride it out a level lower where the $$$ amount will be less significant. When I feel things starting to turn back I can go up again. As long as you keep your mind right, work on your game, and keep getting the chips in while you're ahead things will turn around. Lots of big name players have went broke before they made it.

I've come to find, at least for me, that the mental game of poker (esp online) is perhaps as important if not more so then the math and strategy of the game. After all, we can make every move correctly and still lose a winning hand many times in a row.
I totally agree. We just have to have to ride the cruel wave that is variance. Sometimes we'll be at bottom questioning every move we make wondering 'why me?' Other times we're on top of the world and it seems like we can do no wrong. Makes it hard to keep your sanity :)

This is one of the first massive downswings Ive experienced since I committed to an actual roll and where I have resisted the urge to "move up to just get that roll up again" and just held the course. You think hey I'll just sit down at the 50NL table just this once, double or triple up and move back down or I'll just enter this high entry fee tourney just this once to get the win. And we all know how that generally works out. I'd rather stay at my level or drop down and top up my roll if needed then just go down those chasing trips again. Might as well take advantage of some reload bonuses along the way and stick to my game at the same time.
Congrats and fighting that urge. I know how strong it can be. As long as you can keep that mentality and don't chase your losses I think you'll pull through. Just keep working on your game and make sure you're making the best decisions possible. Eventually you'll get on the right side of variance and your graph will start to swing back in the right direction.
 
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