Extract value when on a NUT flush draw?

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Deceitful_Frank

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Ok so I have raised pre-flop in late position with Ks9s and the got 2 callers. The flop comes As 4d Ts and it is checked around to me.

Should I check for the free turn card or put in a small bet that one or both callers might call, giving myself healthy pot odds whilst getting more money into the pot?

I know stack sizes and player types come in to play but I am thinking all things being equal.
 
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The_Pup

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I know the situation, Frank. My only concern about the c-bet is how likely I am to get check-raised; if one of your callers is mega tight, for example, they could be waiting to raise with an ace. However, most often your bet will win the pot there, if you get a call there are loads of options depending on the turn. If a spade comes you can play as if scared of the flush and get the villain to put money in with their AK, AT etc. If a blank (say 7h) comes a second barrel might get them to fold a drawing hand. If a court card comes and they bet you can fold assuming their straight is made. Etc. etc. etc.

The problem with the check on the flop is that a bet on the turn from the villain leaves you having to fold if you don't hit a spade, which, most of the time, you won't. The only time I would hesitate to bet (other than check/raise fear) is an obsessive calling station who will call down to river with K4 or something.
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

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I always raise here.
You only hit the flush 1/3 of the time, and nobody seems interested in the pot now so you might as well try to win it here.

If they call you have a lot of outs.
If they re-raise you fold.

On the turn you have position, so (assuming they check it again, like they checked the flop) you have a good chance of seeing the river for free.
 
doops

doops

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Bet as if you hit your A. Not as if you are on a draw. Now, I am assuming you would not go all-in if you had had an A. I am assuming that your bet, if you hit, would be close to pot sized. A small bet looks like what it is -- a value bet on your semi-bluff. Or a c-bet on a complete miss. However, if you normally make a small bet when you hit, make that small bet.

A pot-sized bet is more likely to make the potential check-raiser simply call -- do you have 2 pair to his AK? What's going on? He might give you the chance to catch your spade cheaply by checking to you on the turn and you can get a free card then.

Obviously, if he shoves back at you, you have a decision to make. It's not an insta-fold when you have the nut-flush draw. At least, it's not for most people. I'd stick with it more than half the time.
 
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holypendant

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I'm sure different ppl haf diff approach but mine is more conservative. i would chk to see free card. if they were to fold, even after u cbet on draw n u hit ur flush, they will fold too.. but if u bet n din hit ur flush, they will still call u dwn or raise u. better to win small than lose big time...
 
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WiZZiM

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depends on if its cash or tournament for me, cash i generally cbet it but not all the time, tournament i mix it up between checking and cbetting... but yeah, if you notice that a particular opponant check raises a lot, then i would suggest a check, as you do not want to be raised off your draw..
 
spiderman637

spiderman637

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As there's an ACE in the flop, i suggest you to just check and try to catch a flush and then u can raise the bet...
But if ACE would not have been flopped, i would suggest you to post a small bet and try to get money into the pot...
And if some one reraises you, i suggest you to fold, until you are in late phase of a tourney...
 
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Phil922

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well i probably wouldnt make a value bet, but i would make a continuation bet trying to represent hitting the ace.an average player that has an ace would reraise somebody that looks to be stealing from late position. if you do end up hitting ur flush it will also be more disguised if u play it like that
 
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