Donk Betting & Min Raising

vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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Hey guys,
Here's another one of my crazy ideas that im going to throw out there. when i play 6max zoom. AND ZOOM ONLY. ive noticed a cool little trick. i play at the 50NL. every time someone raises and i just make a simple call out of position and the flop comes "anything,it doesnt matter",i always lead out and make a min raise DONK bet like around 1 dollar when the pot is already somewhere around 3.25. this is a good play when u have hit air or a weak pair or a gut shot.

Now it really doesnt matter what the flop is. i do this(donk in with min raise 1 dollar) for two reasons.
1. to get some information about where he is at. and
2.because the majority of the time they will fold. i have done it like 5000 times and im pretty sure it works at least 50-75% of the time. it even works often in multiwaypots. ive seen 4 guys fold to a 9 high board in a 8 dollar pot for just a min raise from me out of position.1 $.

So what im saying is yea if your then reraised you can let it go but it seems to me that overall it is a very profitable move cause you risk so little to win so much. Sometimes 1 dollars will have the same(if not a scarrier) effect to 3 dollar raises. anyways. keep it real people.
and also for the skilled player or even the more amature,this can look more often than not like a BEG for a reriase so they decide to not get involved.

just trying to share some of my acquired wisdom. if anyone has any theory on this issue,please share.
 
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domeburglar

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I dont really like this play.. I mean your making it cheap enough for the draws to chase.. and your just donking away $$ to people who have hit the flop... and i mean this play your expecting players at micro limits to be doing high level thinking..

I feel in most cases they arent gunna be thinking.. "hes betting small to make me think hes weak so ill bet big when in reality hes really strong" The players at these levels just arent thinking that deeply..

i think more often ud get people who will chase cuz its cheap, or bet back because they think it looks weak..
 
AlfieAA

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What do you do on the turn if they call the donk minraise OTF?...
 
youregoodmate

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I raise tiny donk bets 100% of the time, its a massive sign of weakness.... but thanks for the free $.
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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What do you do on the turn if they call the donk minraise OTF?...
well that would depend on whether the turn helped me or not. i have made alot of money using this min bet. i know u guys dont like it in theory.neither do i. but trust me it works in enough cases to make it profitable. if the turn didnt help me at all i would then either check or fire again depending on the board. anyways.
i get alot of heat on this forum for these posts i put up here.but yesterday alone i won 400 in 50NL and i used this donk bet so many times that it became second nature.i could not believe the folds i was getting.
 
Blobweird123

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well that would depend on whether the turn helped me or not. i have made alot of money using this min bet. i know u guys dont like it in theory.neither do i. but trust me it works in enough cases to make it profitable. if the turn didnt help me at all i would then either check or fire again depending on the board. anyways.
i get alot of heat on this forum for these posts i put up here.but yesterday alone i won 400 in 50NL and i used this donk bet so many times that it became second nature.i could not believe the folds i was getting.

Problem is the 400 you won like that was luck and you'll be giving it back soon enough. So what happens when they raise you and you fols a few times? At that point they are reading you like a book. You just keep boosting their bankrolls anyway?:icon_thum
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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Problem is the 400 you won like that was luck and you'll be giving it back soon enough. So what happens when they raise you and you fols a few times? At that point they are reading you like a book. You just keep boosting their bankrolls anyway?:icon_thum
thats my piece of advice.take it or leave it. it works for me. im sharing my thoughts.if you dont think its profitable dont do it. BTW the 400 is up to 650 this morning after another 300 hands. and i still do it sometimes so go figure how good they are at reading me.
 
vinylspiros

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and yea im a total donk and have no idea of how to play the game. thats what i would tell someone who made this thread but miraculasly(def typo here) im using donk betting to my advantage. isnt there anyone out there who has made some money from donking?
 
LuckyBundy13

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Meh, I agree w/ most people's response on here. I don't like it. Small sample size though, keep us updated.
 
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Do you donk bet the nuts also?

If you get raised and you have nothing will you continue?

You might think of this as a way to get info but you give way more information than you will receive, doesn't seem a viable strategy to me.
 
youregoodmate

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Do you donk bet the nuts also?

If you get raised and you have nothing will you continue?

You might think of this as a way to get info but you give way more information than you will receive, doesn't seem a viable strategy to me.

It isn't. I see fish do it every single day, it means they have **** all.
 
vinylspiros

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Do you donk bet the nuts also?

If you get raised and you have nothing will you continue?

You might think of this as a way to get info but you give way more information than you will receive, doesn't seem a viable strategy to me.
no i dont do it with the nuts. its mostly agood idea to keep some pot control when your on a draw but more often then not,i see them folding which is a pleasant surprise.
no i wont continue if im raised and i have no descent draw or min pair at least.
and when you have platinum star status on stars like i do,people know you are pretty experienced so when they see you making such a donk move,it becomes totally spooky. maybe it works cause they know im a reg. dont know.
 
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@ youregoodmatePeople still make this dumb play at 25nl? I assumed it would cease to exist at about 10nl. . .


@Vinyl I can tell you that I'm probably one of the noobiest players on here and even I would be raising you close to 100% of the time, you not only give info about your hand but also allow the villain to gain information about other players holdings. Making it even more profitable for the villain IP to make a play.

Here is the scenario, as I said I'm not even good so I can only imagine that your success rate will be ever lower against good players

1. You bet
2. I raise

Your first point in the post is that you get info, you don't. I raise with every hand and therefore all you gather is that, what? I raised you and therefore I must have any hand within my range. The fact that you are paying to see whether I have two cards seems stupid. You are paying for information already there.

You also said it is easy to just let it go at this point, so you are just letting go unless your hand is strong enough to continue, again if I'm the villain this means I get information and you do not. You continue, you must have a strong piece of the board, simple. At this point I can select a hand range from mine that extracts value from yours and simply give up with the rest.


Maybe you can play like a genius and I'm just oversimplifying the scenario, in which case you can just explain how to beat the strategy I use and I'll concede your point.
 
vinylspiros

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yheyy

@ youregoodmatePeople still make this dumb play at 25nl? I assumed it would cease to exist at about 10nl. . .


@Vinyl I can tell you that I'm probably one of the noobiest players on here and even I would be raising you close to 100% of the time, you not only give info about your hand but also allow the villain to gain information about other players holdings. Making it even more profitable for the villain IP to make a play.

Here is the scenario, as I said I'm not even good so I can only imagine that your success rate will be ever lower against good players

1. You bet
2. I raise

Your first point in the post is that you get info, you don't. I raise with every hand and therefore all you gather is that, what? I raised you and therefore I must have any hand within my range. The fact that you are paying to see whether I have two cards seems stupid. You are paying for information already there.
ok so i make the min raise after youve raised me preflop.the pot is around 3 and i bet 1. if you dont have anything and you are a good player you have two options.one is to fold and 2 is to raise.well, MOST of the time when you dont have anything you will fold to avoid getting into wierd pots. SO yes most of the time you will not be reraised cause good players tend to avoid shady situations. i didnt just come here and decide to make a thread from air. it works. try thinking outside of the bubble. good players know that other good players wont min raise. so when you do they fold.not 100% of the time.but in the case that they dont connect to the flop which is more often then not they fold.
You also said it is easy to just let it go at this point, so you are just letting go unless your hand is strong enough to continue, again if I'm the villain this means I get information and you do not. You continue, you must have a strong piece of the board, simple. At this point I can select a hand range from mine that extracts value from yours and simply give up with the rest.
and also:
i dont even care what the villain has.i dont bother thinking about it.his reaction to my min bet will let me know. esp if he only calls the 1 dollar,its like him saying "i dont have anything"most of the time. but hey im not going to get into hand specifics in general cause every hand is different. this is a technique that can be used by anyone who wants. and not all the time of course just sometimes. esp if they raise pre,u call and then they check on the flop.one dollar will do the job. anyways. good luck man. i hope i made sense.i sure know it works for me.

Maybe you can play like a genius and I'm just oversimplifying the scenario, in which case you can just explain how to beat the strategy I use and I'll concede your point.
answer in message sorry for how big the letters are i couldnt highlight them to make them smaller.
 
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I think you may be getting very lucky with the players you are playing against here. If the villain raises you 100% of the time, how does that give you any information?
 
vinylspiros

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I think you may be getting very lucky with the players you are playing against here. If the villain raises you 100% of the time, how does that give you any information?
i dont know. it just does. its something i cant explain in general cause it depends on many factors. but every action brings a reaction and this reaction is a story to one who views it. so it depends,on your hand, the board ,his tendancies etc etc.
dont matter if what you do makes sense or not.doesnt matter if its right or wrong. the only thing that matters is to win pots. and i personally have won my share of pots with absolute air through donk min betting.the profit is more than the times ive had to fold when 3 bet. i dont like the term donk bet. i preffer the term shark bet but ,its not me who wrote the books now is it.
 
kmixer

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For those asking OP what they do with a villain that raises him 100% of the time. I am confused. Where did they say that they runs into a lot of villains that are like that? I know that others have said that they will raise 100% of the time with nothing but I am not seeing where OP says they run into it.

Don't forget the strategy being discussed is 6-Max ZOOM only.
 
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I play 2nl and there are a few players here including myself that would raise him almost all the time here. He is playing 50nl, and I can only assume the players there are superior in just about every way than the guys I play with.

The OP stated that his move is good for information gathering, the reason I brought up being raised 100% of the time is that he can never gain information on a good player on the flop in this spot. Seeing as good players are the ones he really ought to need the information for, it seems to defeat the purpose.

So again, he did not state that this happens. My question for him is regarding the donk min-bet's functionality as a tool of info-gathering. If it works as he states then it might serve me to include it in my game. As it stands I cannot see how it is possible to gain any information with the move.

I could have asked about opponents calling, but like I said earlier I feel the need for having information against a good player (who I'm assuming will raise all the time) is much more important than having information on a worse player.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Keep going with it, and try actually keeping stats on it - I assume you have a HUD/tracker? I'm curious how this continues going for you as the sample size increases.

I don't think it is by any means ever going to be the most +EV move, but I disagree somewhat with some others on here. I think it could be +EV in general, as if they are folding even a reasonable % of the time, we are printing money. Betting $1 into a $3 pot means that out bet only needs to get folds 25% of the time... It would not surprise me at all to see that this would be true for Zoom, since history between players cannot converge in the same way as on a non-Zoom table.
 
bz54321

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Like the strategy use it a lot in tournaments but never works in live play. In order for another player to re-raise you 100% of the time they have to come down to your level. They would be playing any two cards and it becomes a dangerous game at that point for both players.
 
dirtyoldog

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This will work till peaple catch on then they will just use you as a spring board to bump up the pot.Im sure it also works for setting peaple on tilt.But all in all it may work now but once they know thats your game they will use it to dig your own grave.
 
bz54321

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This will work till peaple catch on then they will just use you as a spring board to bump up the pot.Im sure it also works for setting peaple on tilt.But all in all it may work now but once they know thats your game they will use it to dig your own grave.

No strategy works for ever!
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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I think we actually have a new Calicard?

but no BlueNowhere :(

but seriously lol OP you are the biggest fish ever lmao
 
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