Do you ever play a 2 3 off suite?

If the blinds are still low, sometimes I like to play the low cards because if they come up on the flop, no one would expect that you're holding them. Good strategy or a waste of time/blinds?

I'll call with something like 2-3 off or 4-5 off if (1) blinds are low and I'm in the sb and nobody has called the blinds or (2) blinds are low and I'm on the button or (maybe, if I've got a decent stack) in the cut-off and nobody else has called the blinds.

Wouldn't call off a raise in any instance with it, and wouldn't bluff with it from anything but button or cut-off.

Depending on who's to my left, I might raise 5xbb with it preflop from cut-off or button to steal the blinds. Not worth it in small blinds, but when they're bigger and if I have a stack and can be pretty sure those on my left will fold... sure, I'll take a crack at it.

As Annie Duke says, if you don't get your fingers caught in the cookie jar now and then, you aren't playing good poker.

i say thats good poker strategy because people wont expect you for that, i dont think its a waste of time

those "donkey cards" are called that for a reason nobody expects to see them in a hand especially if its been raised. Thats why i love to play the little cards as long as your stack is nice a tall

Powerhouse in heads up.

In the blinds you could easily play them but if the flop is not perfect you could get in alot of trouble with this hand. If you get a pair you have no kicker, If you get a striaght it is the low end.

I wouldn't play them under any circumstances. Nothing good can come of it unless you connect big time with the flop.

Only in the right positions and stack sizes as noted previously. Not crazy about bluffing with them. There are better hands to bluff with that stand better chances on a flop.

Why bother playing that crap. You will be a huge underdog every single time you see the flop and if you flop 2 pair you can easily be counterfeited by the river. Then you lose a lot of chips because you surely bet a nice amount on the flop. You have to get too lucky to play that garbage. First to hit that hand and then for someone to have top pair or good draw to pay you off and finally lucky that they don't get ahead of you by the river.

Kenzie 96 said:

Powerhouse in heads up.

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I'll play them when, literally, any two cards will do. So if I'm in position and stealing, or if I'm playing heads up and the cards don't really matter much.

Flat calling with them at a full table is just throwing money away though - you're rarely going to show them down, so there's very little to be gained from playing them in terms of your image. All it will do is make the other players peg you as weak-loose, which is exactly what you are if you're playing 32o (and other similar hands) this way.

Keep in mind too that when you do hit a flop, you're going to have a hard time getting paid off. You might get paid if you hit a K23 or A45 flop against someone holding AK, but most of the time if you hit a flop hard it means pretty much everyone else will have missed.

Low chance of payoff + high chance of just having to fold because you've missed = waste of money.

OzExorcist said:

I'll play them when, literally, any two cards will do. So if I'm in position and stealing, or if I'm playing heads up and the cards don't really matter much.

Flat calling with them at a full table is just throwing money away though - you're rarely going to show them down, so there's very little to be gained from playing them in terms of your image. All it will do is make the other players peg you as weak-loose, which is exactly what you are if you're playing 32o (and other similar hands) this way.

Keep in mind too that when you do hit a flop, you're going to have a hard time getting paid off. You might get paid if you hit a K23 or A45 flop against someone holding AK, but most of the time if you hit a flop hard it means pretty much everyone else will have missed.

Low chance of payoff + high chance of just having to fold because you've missed = waste of money.

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Agree 100%, but one thing to add. Think about the big hands where you'll be stacking. Say flop comes 237. You're going to feel pretty good getting it in. Villain most likely won't be stacking (assuming small blinds in relation to stacks) without something that beats you. What huge hand can you make that beats another huge hand? The only thing you can hope for is villain being the type who will stack TPTK and having like AK on a 23K flop.

So you'll rarely make a hand big enough to commit a ton of money, and when you do the only hands that pay you off are even bigger hands most of the time. Obviously stealing's another thing entirely, and I'll easily steal with 23, but never intending to show the hand down.

Same here. I'll never call with 32o, but I will raise on the button against the right opponents. Obviously, in that situation, the cards are fairly meaningless.

No way, no how, never ever never. I wouldn't even play it in the small blind with a big stack unless the big blind's stack was extremely low. No, I'm not thinking 'what if I hit 2 pair or a set'?. Am I nuts? Might hit a pair AT BEST, that's the reality. Also assume that if you raise the BB (all folded to you, the SB), the BB strongly suspects a bluff - consider the notion you'll be called or even re-raised. And I also never assume the BB doesn't have a great hand.

Not my favorite hand to start with ; ) If you are going to make a pure bluff at a pot does it really matter what your cards are ? If you have position and are at the right table you cam make money on any two cards. Should these be any exception ? You can always get away if someone comes over the top of you ... or put them all in and see what happens : o Then again , maybe you should just fold them preflop ... lol

Cards do matter

poker d player said:

Not my favorite hand to start with ; ) If you are going to make a pure bluff at a pot does it really matter what your cards are ? If you have position and are at the right table you cam make money on any two cards. Should these be any exception ? You can always get away if someone comes over the top of you ... or put them all in and see what happens : o Then again , maybe you should just fold them preflop ... lol

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I think it does matter what the cards are when you are bluffing. Why bluff with 2 3 off. If the blind calls what then. Continuation bet? And he calls and/or reraises you, then what? This play will not be a winning play in the long run so why do it? There are other middle range hands that fair much better for a steal. I would wait for one of those.

wicked663 said:

I think it does matter what the cards are when you are bluffing. Why bluff with 2 3 off. If the blind calls what then. Continuation bet? And he calls and/or reraises you, then what? This play will not be a winning play in the long run so why do it? There are other middle range hands that fair much better for a steal. I would wait for one of those.

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Here's an example. You're on the button and the BB is a nit. Your notes say that he never flat calls a raise. He either reraises, or (far more often) folds. Here, 32o is the same as any other hand that you wouldn't call a reraise with. AT, 98o, KJo, etc. It is profitable, because he will usually fold, and when he doesn't, you get away from the hand.

Ok, I here ya but why not wait till the next round when you get J 10 or something atleast half way decent so you don't have to hit a miracle flop or fold if you are called. Just seems like there are ways to increase your odds of winning the hand when you are trying to steal and attempting it with 2 3 off is not one of them.

And what if he min reraises you, would you fold or continue.

In Hold em you are better off saving your blinds than limping in with 2 3 off suit just to see the flop.

I play it if I'm the BB of course and most of the time I will in the SB. Other than that, I will not!

wicked663 said:

Ok, I here ya but why not wait till the next round when you get J 10 or something atleast half way decent so you don't have to hit a miracle flop or fold if you are called. Just seems like there are ways to increase your odds of winning the hand when you are trying to steal and attempting it with 2 3 off is not one of them.

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Because I have no intention of going to the flop. If this player folds his BB to a steal 85% of the time (ignoring for the sake of simplicity the SB), if I do this 100 times:

85 times, I win 1.5 BB
15 times, I lose 3 BB (if that's what I'm raising)
So, I'm netting +82.5 BB

And, that's assuming that if the BB reraises, or even flat calls, I'm abandoning the pot. So, even if I don't intend of putting another single chip into the pot after this bet, I'm still up in the long run.

Obviously, this is a fairly specific scenario. The BB has to be very tight, I have to be playing a ring game or a tournament in which the blinds are big enough to be worth stealing, and it has to be folded around to me. If the opportunity is right, you don't need the cards. Maybe if I fold that 32o and get dealt JT the next hand, someone in front of me comes in for a big raise.

Cards are important, and situations are important. But sometimes the situations outrank the cards.

..only in play money tournies would i ever play a 2/3 offsuit...or if i had them in the big blind and no one raised preflop in a money game...you wouldn't see me raising unless trips or two pair came on the flop

I played 2/3o tonight when I accidentally signed up for a limit tourney.

savagepenguin that is great: ) that is one great luck. its fun to catch those cards..

i dont play 23 but play suited 45 46 67 35 when blind are low. especially in turbo tournaments, u get more chips in the long run.

also i want to ask an other question, what is that program in the upper picture and what does those numbers mean about your oppenents ?

it all depends the circumstances

when the blinds are low your idea should be to play much more solid and a better range of hands so when you do catch a hand someone will double you up. Playing low cards just kills your stack because if you continue to do this until you flop a straight or two pair you will have wasted at least half of your stack. Early in a tourney stick to playing good hands and suited connectors in position and you will do much better. promise.