Do I buy in for 100 BB or 250 BB (max allowed) at 2NL?

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sachin79

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Hi guys while looking through the forums, people are saying that you should buy in for 100BB at the microstakes, so I would be buying in for 2 dollars at 2NL, but should I buy in for 5, which is the max that pokerstars allows?

Also I multi-table, 6 tables at a time.


Thank you.
 
JCgrind

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it doesnt matter generally as fish tend to not have even 100BB, but of course, if theres fish with more then why not have the means to take all their money. if you arent comfortable with deepstacked play and there are other good regs at your table with deep stacks then i would.
but like seriously, when are any of your opponents scary at 2NL
 
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baudib1

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I think if you don't know the answer you should start at 100 BBs. Play becomes a bit more complicated on all streets the deeper you get. Jchoop's point is well taken as you'd like to have the fish covered, but your bankroll can disappear quickly if you're giving away stacks 250 BBs at a clip.
 
The Messiah

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It depends whether your familiar with deep stack play or not, as if your not aware, the play varies from 100bb play to 250bb. Different strategies can be introduced as you now have greater implied odds etc.
If you need some further information on deep stack play, and if you think you will be able to incorporate it into your game knowing how then by all means play 250bb deep and buy-in for $5.

Heres a basic guide for profitable deep stack play to get you on your way..
http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1588/1/

GL
 
Arjonius

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It depends. If you're better than your opponents, understand how to adapt your play for a deeper stack and have enough of a roll, then it's generally better to buy in for the full amount (or less but enough to cover everyone, which may be possible at some tables).
 
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RamdeeBen

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I just usually have myself buy-in for maximum which is 250bb at micros but in general, you're hardly ever stacking off 250bb deep, the vast majority of people are at 100bb. I've not actually had 250bb stack off once, over 20k hands at the minute, the most I've had is 200bb ish which was vs a fish.

However, if you do notice a complete fish at the table and he manages to stack someone for 100bb or whatever, make sure you reload to the maximum as potentially you can take 2 buy-ins of him quickly.
 
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GWU73

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An easy way to decide is to buy in for a little more than enough to cover the largest stack on your right few seats. If the big stacks are to your left consider buying in for 100 bb until you know what you are dealing with. My reasoning si your position will affect your results, giving you an advantage over the guys on your right and a substantial disadvantage against the guy on your left.

Another simple and effective strategy is to buy in for 50 - 60BB and play tight preflop and jam good flops. Commitment decisions are simple. Increase your buy ins as your skill increases.
 
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Disagree with Jscoop... all hands are scary when fishy boy is shoving his 40% hand in ur face all day and your BR is not that flush/deep. It doesn't take too many 70% hands to bust out deepstacked to be on your way to carbon fun steo ville. Variance can last a month EZ. Cant tell you how many times I cashed out on Absolute down to $50 bucks then had to drop down to limit to make sure i didnt have to deposit as variance took $40 on .02 tables NLH. Play 100bb and be able to call down donks all in comfortably. you wait for the perfect hand (and blow $5 waiting) and then dummt hits runner runner your toast for $10 in 2 hours. happens 3x in a day, week, and your micro stack could be toasty.
 
JCgrind

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Disagree with Jscoop... all hands are scary when fishy boy is shoving his 40% hand in ur face all day and your BR is not that flush/deep. It doesn't take too many 70% hands to bust out deepstacked to be on your way to carbon fun steo ville. Variance can last a month EZ. Cant tell you how many times I cashed out on Absolute down to $50 bucks then had to drop down to limit to make sure i didnt have to deposit as variance took $40 on .02 tables NLH. Play 100bb and be able to call down donks all in comfortably. you wait for the perfect hand (and blow $5 waiting) and then dummt hits runner runner your toast for $10 in 2 hours. happens 3x in a day, week, and your micro stack could be toasty.

make sure youre rolled then.

if youre losing $40 at 2NL w/ 250BB thats still 8 stacks. if a fish is shipping 40% of hands then why wouldnt you want the chance to take all his money, as youre going to be able to get it in soooo good, soooooo often.

and even if youre running bad in terms of variance, you should still be able to beat 2NL. you should be picking up pot after pot w/o getting all it. its really not hard. if you stack a $50 roll on 2NL its not cos youre running bad, its cos you suck and you dont realise how many huge leaks you have.

and whats this about waiting for the perfect hand to stack the fish? you should be able to stack him every TPTK/overpair or better. and hand like this come around OFTEN at 2NL
 
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swingro

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Hi guys while looking through the forums, people are saying that you should buy in for 100BB at the microstakes, so I would be buying in for 2 dollars at 2NL, but should I buy in for 5, which is the max that Pokerstars allows?

Also I multi-table, 6 tables at a time.


Thank you.

I will answer you. It is exactely the fact that you do not know the difference that you have buy-in for 100 BB.
It is deep enough and it will not heart you when you make big mistakes.
 
tbdbitl

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100BB would be the recommended. However, if the table you are sitting at has most players sitting at 200BB, if your bankroll allows, I would want to be buying in with close to average stack--if allowed!
 
Arjonius

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Disagree with Jscoop... all hands are scary when fishy boy is shoving his 40% hand in ur face all day and your BR is not that flush/deep. It doesn't take too many 70% hands to bust out deepstacked to be on your way to carbon fun steo ville. Variance can last a month EZ. Cant tell you how many times I cashed out on Absolute down to $50 bucks then had to drop down to limit to make sure i didnt have to deposit as variance took $40 on .02 tables NLH. Play 100bb and be able to call down donks all in comfortably. you wait for the perfect hand (and blow $5 waiting) and then dummt hits runner runner your toast for $10 in 2 hours. happens 3x in a day, week, and your micro stack could be toasty.
No, no, no. Theoretically, variance can have you running below expectation for a long time. In practice, it doesn't happen at 2NL because there are always players who simply give away money. So if you're half-decent, it's pretty unlikely that you'll have long losing streaks.

IMO, dropping down instead of depositing when, as implied, you have money you could deposit, is an example of counter-productive BR micro-management. I have one roll. The amounts I have on different sites are not separate rolls. They are all part of my single roll, which also includes the money in my e-wallet plus any money in my pocket, bank, etc. that I'm willing to use for poker.

If I have $150 on Carbon, for example, I'm funded to play NL5. If I have another $10 on Black Chip, why am I not able to sit at the exact same table if I'm logged in there? BRM on a site by site basis says I can't which seems pretty silly since I'm the same player with the same EV. It seems a whole lot more sensible to think in terms of one BR, in this case $160.
 
JCgrind

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No, no, no. Theoretically, variance can have you running below expectation for a long time. In practice, it doesn't happen at 2NL because there are always players who simply give away money. So if you're half-decent, it's pretty unlikely that you'll have long losing streaks.

I stand by that you can't lose at 2NL if your poker game isn't retarded
 
hackmeplz

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I stand by that you can't lose at 2NL if your poker game isn't retarded

Retarded is relative. I'm sure if jungleman watched you play he would call your poker game retarded even if you're a 1knl reg. That said I agree with everything else you've said in the thread. Also unless you are close to homeless (in which case don't play poker anyway) a bad downswing at 2nl is not a lot of money. If the reason you're not going to buy in deep is you want to master 100bb play first that's fine. If the reason is you're scared money at 250bb that seems kinda silly to me.
 
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swingro

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I stand by that you can't lose at 2NL if your poker game isn't retarded
Do not be that sure. I studied a little my database . I have houndres of players recorded at 2NL and only several of them are relatively winning players. Not only that . Only few are able to beat the rake so that they can make profit to grind. I would avoid to advise most of break-even or slightly winning players to play 250 bbs deep.
 
JCgrind

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i taught a guy to play poker after he came over one day while i was multi'ing 2/4 and decided that it was the best thing ever. i got him to sign up here, but hes yet to post. he has been playing for a year or so on a combination of 2NL and 10NL deep ante. theyre the only 2 stakes he plays.

like me, he sucks at BRM, and hes never been able to get a BR of more than a few hundred dollars playing no higher than 10NL. i think its therefore safe to assume that he isnt good enough to beat 10NL atm.

ive seen this guys 2NL graph. hes played about 100k hands there. hes up $30 and his EV is +$130, thats right over 50 buy ins BELOW EV. The kid is gettign totally owned, and is by no means a superstar player and yet hes still beating 2NL.

as for retarded being relative, you can play textbook ABC poker to win, you could literally play TT+ AK and show profit at 2NL with a bit of table selection. you cannot do any of these things a little higher, you need to understand the game/ranges/betsizing. you dont even have to think at 2NL, you could follow rules to win. its mindless.

and only 10% of people who play online are winning players if that statistic is still accurate. obv theres going to be much less of these at 2NL, its 2NL. so your database analysis doesnt really go against anything ive said...
 
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