difference bet raising first in vs w/ prev callers

How do people feel about how/whether your range changes when you're raising first in vs. raising w/ previous callers?

Let's assume I'm in late position at a standard weak microstakes cash game w/ no particular reads on anyone at the table. In the CO, for instance, I'm open raising ~25-30% of the time and always w/ pairs, broadway, Axs. So does this narrow or expand if there's a MP limper? Is it the same? What if I have 2 limpers? I know the amount I raise by will change (generally 3xbb +1 per limper), but am I always going to punish limpers w/ the same hands I would play if it were folded to me?

(Btw, my point here isn't whether the exact particular opening PFR range is correct to begin with; I'm just trying to get a sense of whether it changes much depending on limpers.)

with no reads, and a decent hand that can stand calls, raise those limping bastards. Your range will always be subject to change when there is action before compared to first in IMO. Just how that range looks will depend on each situation.

rowhousepd said:

So does this narrow or expand if there's a MP limper? Is it the same? What if I have 2 limpers?

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I'll answer your question with a question:

What's the difference between a player that limps and a player that posts in the BB?

keep raising so many ppl want to see flops for cheap, you raising makes things way more uncomfortable for them. Raise get a caller continue on flop, limp caller folds enough to def make profit even if you are running bad. Running good just makes things really easy.

If you are asking if I am going to range you differently, yes I probably am. But the difference will be predicated on my history with you. I could tighten my range on your raise with a limper or two, but it could also go the other way too. Depends on my read on you (which isn't necessarily right).

c9h13no3 said:

I'll answer your question with a question:

What's the difference between a player that limps and a player that posts in the BB?

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Well, the limper at least has some kind of hand an not ATC as a person who checks in the BB. But I'm not sure if I know where you're going with this, other than to perhaps be more careful and not assume it's as easy to take down the pot PF as it would be if I were stealing by raising first in. (Correct?)

MediaBLITZ said:

If you are asking if I am going to range you differently, yes I probably am. But the difference will be predicated on my history with you. I could tighten my range on your raise with a limper or two, but it could also go the other way too. Depends on my read on you (which isn't necessarily right).

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I was just saying theoretically, with no reads. But I'm thinking I should tighten up a but. Fwiw, I especially have seen a leak when I raise low or middle PP (something I'd always do in LP unopened). Overcard hits the flop, villian w/ Axs or Kxs flops a better pair, and can't lay down to my cbet.

rowhousepd said:

I was just saying theoretically, with no reads. But I'm thinking I should tighten up a but. Fwiw, I especially have seen a leak when I raise low or middle PP (something I'd always do in LP unopened). Overcard hits the flop, villian w/ Axs or Kxs flops a better pair, and can't lay down to my cbet.

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With absolutely no read I'm going to usually err on the side of being tight and give you credit for whatever you are representing.

rowhousepd said:

Well, the limper at least has some kind of hand an not ATC as a person who checks in the BB.

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But the limper also is unlikely to have a very good hand too, right? A player in the BB could have a monster, while limpers are less likely to have a huge hand.

If you ask me, you can treat people limping the same as a player who posted a blind.