defending the blinds

jaymfc · Oct 29, 2007

the sign on my forehead says " steal my blinds "

what do I need to do to erase it. if I fight back with a marginal hand , I'm playing into their hands , they steal every blind and then when you can't take anymore you go against them and thats the one time they have a good hand . if you wait for premium hands you may have to endure alot of stealing and getting pushed around. then may not even get paid off with a good hand.

so what are you thinking besides , oh happy to get that 411 on jay

pigpen02 · Oct 29, 2007

In my opinion, blinds are what you have to pay to play the game. Once in the pot, they are not "my" blinds. I just get a free play of the hand without having to add anything to call. If I would not act from the button, let them go. If there is only the button in, perhaps a read on him will allow me to call him with a slightly weaker hand to match his weak steal, but remember, a thief can be dealt AA just like anybody else.

Effexor · Oct 29, 2007

jaymfc said:
the sign on my forehead says " steal my blinds "

Very funny.

My brother in law is the same way, except he yells outloud every time "These people see me coming from a MILE away! Steal my <explicit> blinds you <explicit>" Thats the best part of playing online, you can yell and say things you'd never say live.

Cheetah · Oct 29, 2007

If you are short stacked, you re-raise all-in with decent hands. If they are on a steal, they will often fold.

If the blinds are small, than defending them will probably cost you more. You are OOP and it is not easy to play after the flop, even with good hands.

If you have a medium stack, then do some stealing of your own to compensate.

Also, if the standard raise is 3BB, you will break even if you re-raise (and they fold) once every 4 times. If you are very tight, re-raising should work most of the time with medium stack.

reglardave · Oct 30, 2007

Play in the blinds like it's any other hand. Play the playable hands, let the crap go. Putting in the blinds is like paying your taxes; none of us like it, but we all gotta do it.

jaymfc · Oct 30, 2007

thats how I play them now , I just let them steal and steal ,waiting for something good ,so I can cram it back up their tail . but I need something between good hands , should I ever push back with marginal hands ? lots of people defend their blinds strong with marginal hands .

Dorkus Malorkus · Oct 30, 2007

It's largely dependent on (a) stack sizes, (b) your table image, and (c) the person who is 'stealing'.

Say you're the BB with A3s and 7k chips, and a tightish villain with 40k raises to 3k from the button (say blinds are 500/1k). It's in your interests to fold here - your stack is not sufficiently large to give you reraise fold equity, and villain has a large enough stack to take the hit so he may elect to gamble even if he's raising with 96s or something.

Now give yourself the exact same hand (A3s) with the same blinds (500/1k) and same positions (you BB, villain button), loosen the villain up a bit and give both of you ~11k stacks, if villain raises to 3k you should be interested in shoving, purely because of the increased likelihood villain will fold.

If you run into a monster, you run into a monster. Crap happens. You should be looking for the answers to two questions when restealing without a big hand - "How likely is it that villain will fold to my shove?", and "How likely is it that I have a reasonable number of outs against villain's calling range?". The more likely the two are, the more inclined we should be to make a move. You should NOT be restealing purely because you're "sick of the guy to my right raising my blinds" or whatever, there needs to be a thought process behind it.

The alternative, especially if the table conditions suit it, is to not overly worry about restealing and instead concentrate on being first in and stealing blinds from the players to your left. This is especially applicable if you have big stacks to your right and mid-smaller stacks to your left, and/or if the table as a whole is very weak.

ChuckTs · Oct 30, 2007

Dorkus Malorkus said:
It's largely dependent on (a) stack sizes, (b) your table image, and (c) the person who is 'stealing'.

Say you're the BB with A3s and 7k chips, and a tightish villain with 40k raises to 3k from the button (say blinds are 500/1k). It's in your interests to fold here - your stack is not sufficiently large to give you reraise fold equity, and villain has a large enough stack to take the hit so he may elect to gamble even if he's raising with 96s or something.

Now give yourself the exact same hand (A3s) with the same blinds (500/1k) and same positions (you BB, villain button), loosen the villain up a bit and give both of you ~11k stacks, if villain raises to 3k you should be interested in shoving, purely because of the increased likelihood villain will fold.

If you run into a monster, you run into a monster. Crap happens. You should be looking for the answers to two questions when restealing without a big hand - "How likely is it that villain will fold to my shove?", and "How likely is it that I have a reasonable number of outs against villain's calling range?". The more likely the two are, the more inclined we should be to make a move. You should NOT be restealing purely because you're "sick of the guy to my right raising my blinds" or whatever, there needs to be a thought process behind it.

The alternative, especially if the table conditions suit it, is to not overly worry about restealing and instead concentrate on being first in and stealing blinds from the players to your left. This is especially applicable if you have big stacks to your right and mid-smaller stacks to your left, and/or if the table as a whole is very weak.

^^^that.

I think a little more emphasis should be put on the 'alternative' that Chris mentioned, too. If you find yourself shortstacked and with a small enough stack not to be able to resteal, then it's your own fault for not pushing earlier.

Try to maintain a >10BB stack and make sure you pop in a resteal once in a while to let your opponents know not to fool with your blinds.

jaymfc · Oct 30, 2007

OK that helps , Ty ,now if I can just put it in play.

never really stole much from first in , only with position. also when I try to re steal , they just re raise , even with marginal hands forcing me to go all in or fold , I hate coin flips but I guess I need to gamble more. thanks guys

ChuckTs · Oct 30, 2007

jaymfc said:
OK that helps , Ty ,now if I can just put it in play.
never really stole much from first in , only with position. also when I try to re steal , they just re raise , even with marginal hands forcing me to go all in or fold , I hate coin flips but I guess I need to gamble more. thanks guys

First in doesn't mean in first position, jay. What I meant was raising when it's folded to you. Preferably from late position. I much prefer shoving with JTo when folded to us in late position than restealing with A3 like in Chris' example.

aliengenius · Nov 3, 2007

for what it's worth jay, I have notes on you as being VERY tight on the bubble or near to the money...

jaymfc · Nov 3, 2007

aliengenius said:
for what it's worth jay, I have notes on you as being VERY tight on the bubble or near to the money...

exactly , so does everyone else , hence the steal my blinds sign . and the pushing me around by the majority of players , any suggestions to add ? I mean I realize you are having a conflict of interest here , between all the money you are making in these cc buy in games verses teaching the donks to play correctly. lol

aliengenius · Nov 3, 2007

jaymfc said:
exactly , so does everyone else , hence the steal my blinds sign . and the pushing me around by the majority of players , any suggestions to add ? I mean I realize you are having a conflict of interest here , between all the money you are making in these cc buy in games verses teaching the donks to play correctly. lol

It's like a lot of poker advice, it's so situationally dependent...

But, in general, I would say, just loosen up a bit, and be willing to take a few more chances in "situations" where you likely have a "fair" edge.

Stop thinking about the specific cards in your hand, and start thinking about the overall tournament situation as a whole.

For a simple example, if you know a player has been stealing late a lot, you might reraise w (A8s or even 98s) from the big blind-- something to show you can't just be pushed around. Clearly it is correct a lot of time to fold these hands, but that's playing poker: realizing when you should take a stand with them/against whom they are hands you can play back with.

Think about the tournament overall: who is stealing (a potential target for a re-steal?), who is folding (just trying to cash?), who can afford to fold (middle stacks), who is desperate (sub 10x bb), etc., then use that "lens" to view your actual hole cards, and decide on your action in light of the situation, instead of "universally" thinking x hand = x value.

Cheetah · Nov 3, 2007

aliengenius said:
It's like a lot of poker advice, it's so situationally dependent...

But, in general, I would say, just loosen up a bit, and be willing to take a few more chances in "situations" where you likely have a "fair" edge.

Stop thinking about the specific cards in your hand, and start thinking about the overall tournament situation as a whole.

For a simple example, if you know a player has been stealing late a lot, you might reraise w (A8s or even 98s) from the big blind-- something to show you can't just be pushed around. Clearly it is correct a lot of time to fold these hands, but that's playing poker: realizing when you should take a stand with them/against whom they are hands you can play back with.

Think about the tournament overall: who is stealing (a potential target for a re-steal?), who is folding (just trying to cash?), who can afford to fold (middle stacks), who is desperate (sub 10x bb), etc., then use that "lens" to view your actual hole cards, and decide on your action in light of the situation, instead of "universally" thinking x hand = x value.

He is absolutely right. This is why it NEVER makes sense to rank hands according to value.

In tournaments, I sometimes take action without even looking at my cards. Literally. Granted, this is when I have a chip lead. But even if I am short-stacked, it is MORE important whether I am first to act or not, in what position, what kind of players are behind me, in the blinds, etc. Once this is all assesed, I have the RIGHT to look at my cards and decide on an action.

Of course, all the non-card-related decision making is done BEFORE your hands are even dealt!

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defending the blinds

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